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damned the world we live in
in principle I think you should be able to guess the entire premise from the title
Permalink Mark Unread

Carissa is summoning a demon.

 

So are fourteen other people; it's a standard class, for new fourth circle wizards. Mostly they've summoned devils but for the sake of thoroughness -- situations might come up where you'd prefer a demon, they're often cheaper to pay and they have different capabilities -- they're going through the other evil outsiders too. Not the neutral ones, and she's not sure why but obviously isn't stupid enough to ask and let on that she's not sure why. 

 

Carissa has been at the top of her class since she was twelve years old, all the lashes on her back are visibly from before her pubescent growth spurt, and she feels very strongly about keeping it that way but it'd be stupid to rush to be the first to get her demon summoned, lest she make a mistake in the wording on the circle she is writing in powdered cold iron.

 

She is instead the second to get her demon summoned. 

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"- hi. Wow, that's fancy. This isn't a movie set, is it? SSA puts out dummy circles for theatrical and cinematic purposes."

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She only understood half of those words which is weird because, not speaking Abyssal at all, she has Tongues up. "Glad you like it. I don't actually need anything, just wait until my instructor comes by and signs off. I guess if you know people who like summons and take pay in, like, puppies, I'm about to be in the market but I'm not expecting much because, demon." He's actually weirdly human-looking, compared to the one the other student got, but probably that doesn't imply any less chaotic. Devils publish their pay scales because law is objectively better than chaos.

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"I know a guy who wants puppies! He's hoping for a Lunar Aired-

- what language is this?"

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"...presumably Abyssal? I've got Tongues up."

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"Pardon?"

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"Since I am using translation magic, I have no idea what language you're speaking. To me it sounds like Avistani and it would even if you were speaking, I dunno, Azlanti."

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"Avistani, got it, okay. And the one you don't speak very well is - is that Abyssal or something else -"

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She flinches. "I got fine marks in it. Infernal."

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"No, yeah, I could probably read a newspaper in it, it's just notably not a comfortable fluency level - and, ah, where the fuck am I, please?"

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"Egorian. Cheliax. ...Avistan," she adds, reading his facial expression. "..planet's Golarion. Plane is Material."

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"Fascinating! And you have summoning classes and everything! What is the nature of the disinformation campaign, I wonder..." He starts reading the circle.

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"I served five years at the Worldwound, you're not gonna convince me that demons are actually friendly and I don't need that circle there at all." One of the devils had tried, but without any real zeal. 

The circle binds him to remain within it, not using magic or supernatural abilities or magic items on his person, until they've negotiated a deal, and to abide by the deal if he agrees to it. Possibly in this culture everything else is negotiated aloud?

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"No, many demons are unfriendly and I would be scolding you if you'd managed to do this without a binding. You were not planning to negotiate a deal, just show me to your teacher?"

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"There's a verbal exam before that part and it's next week. But you're supposed to do a run of summons first so you're not tongue-tied about demons. Which is not a problem I was expecting to have because I served five years at the Worldwound."

 

She waves her hand to try to get the instructor's attention. He is, however, distracted by another student who seems to have messed up stupidly and is now being - eaten? By a bat-thing of some kind? "- ah, shit."

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"- oh my god what the fuck!"

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"Wow, sorry, I bet we're going to be here for an hour." There are cold-iron lines between the apprentices, she's not worried for her safety.

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"Is or is not a fellow being devoured by a bat monster!"

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"That sure does appear to be the case! I guess he fucked up his circle."

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"Shouldn't someone be - doing something -" He twitches, a little, but the circle holds him.

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"I didn't prep combat spells."

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"Why didn't your teacher have something prepared for this? What's the point of doing it in a classroom setting if not to catch - augh - look I have medical quals if you let me I can maybe patch him up if he's still alive -"

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"Probably the teacher thinks it was a very stupid mistake and not one whose consequences he should be protected from? We do have healing on-site. - you're a demon with healing?"

 

Someone has, by now, in fact banished the bat thing. 

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"Is your healing going to be here fast enough - god, how is he breathing -"

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"- do you not see a lot of casters, we're tougher than normal people -"

There are some robed people walking in now; she kneels mid-sentence.

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"Is that the healers."

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Shrug. Why does this demon want to know so many things. Is that a good strategy wherever he's from.

 

 

The cleric of Asmodeus looks over the circle to understand the mistake before healing the most critical of the student's injuries and leaving him there. Carissa is relieved the situation was handled so reasonably; presumably the demon will not be able to generate more questions about that.

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"I could patch him up the rest of the way if your healers can't improve on that. Or, uh, won't as a - disciplinary matter?"

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She nods at that last bit. "If you just fix it how's he going to learn. If he'd screwed up that badly and hadn't gotten hurt somehow they'd have to whip him."

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"He has already been bitten! A lot! By a bat monster! I don't think not dripping additional blood on the floor today will prevent learning from taking place!"

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"You have a lot of opinions!"

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"You have an abusive educational system! Are you going to, what, fail your test if you let me make him some replacement skin??"

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"Fail my test? If I make a deal with a demon who claims to have medical abilities to heal a student a cleric already saw because I am feeling squeamish about all the blood on the floor? I will not just fail my test for that, I'll get seen for whether I've lost my mind! I would report someone for even being tempted!"

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"It's me who's concerned, you evidently are perfectly at ease with the decision to let him twitch there marinating in his own plasma! If you're that worried about being tempted why did you even let me talk?"

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"...it seems like it'd be pretty hard to negotiate with demons while pointedly not speaking their language. I think good summoners in fact aim to establish rapport, which, I'm getting a sense of why that's hard with Chaotic creatures."

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"Is that another word for 'prefers people be uninjured'?"

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"...no. Uh, Law and Chaos are forces the gods see in the world, and humans don't understand them perfectly, but punishment is part of Law, and obedience to hierarchy, and not having a lot of opinions.  Thinking you should just personally do whatever you like is Chaos. I guess it might just be you. I haven't interacted with any demons before. At the Worldwound we just fight them."

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"Is the bat monster," says Cam, "a 'demon'?"

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"Yes."

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"Interesting. Uh, I'm not sure you're going to do very well on your test, because I'm not the same thing as the bat monster."

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"There are lots of different kinds." But her eyes anxiously dart down to read her circle.

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"When I'm at home some people around me go in for, like, digitigrade legs, antelope horns, claws, designer color schemes, but not 'being a bat monster', that's a little too out there."

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"...the Abyss is infinite, mostly cliffs and valleys of rock and sludge, there are also infinite demons but they tend towards...developmental stages, recently dead people are kind of larval worm things...does that sound like the place you are from."

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"Nope. Hell is infinite, mostly vacuum, there are a few billion demons, most occupants aren't dead people to begin with and the ones who are look like they did in life plus anything they add on like wings."

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"Hell is a different place, not infinite, nine layers, ruled by Asmodeus, devils do look more human than demons. I don't know what share of them are dead people but I think it's got to be most of them, if you go back far enough." Despite all these differences she relaxes slightly; she will fail her test for somehow summoning a devil when she meant to get a demon but she won't be suspicious.

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"That doesn't sound like an infinite layerless vacuum of anarchy to me."

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"....no. Uh, the Maelstrom is an infinite layerless vacuum of anarchy but its inhabitants are even less human looking..... I still think you might be from the Abyss, just some weird pocket of it that doesn't know about the rest of it?"

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"That would be hard since we have some very aggressive media curators conjuring for all the recorded media across the dimensions we've heard of, which is why I was so startled I hadn't heard of this place."

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"Okay, I don't have a theory, then. Probably the planar studies people will." She looks unhappy; glances over at the teacher to see if he's busy.

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"What do people normally want bat-monster-type demons for? - you can call me an apsel to distinguish."

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"Demons can't be poisoned or harmed by lightning so they're useful if you're going up against that, and they're easier to pay than devils because a lot of them just want slaves or magic weapons or to eat a sacrifice alive or whatever."

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"How... charming... what is it devils normally want?"

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"Souls, children, holy things, power or land on the Material Plane, some of them have contracts that look straightforward but aren't..."

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"And what does one summon those for?"

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"Well, sometimes you want to sell your soul, right, or you want - riches, advice, a bodyguard, combat help..."

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"...I've never especially wanted to sell my soul, why would one want that?"

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"If you don't expect to make a particularly good showing in the general population when you die and go to Hell you might preemptively sell your soul to someone who you think can make good use of you. Or if people are questioning your loyalty, not a lot of questions about your loyalty once you've sold your soul..."

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"Does, uh, everybody go to Hell?"

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"Pretty much. If you're Chaotic you go to the Abyss instead but in Cheliax that's awfully rare, we have good Law here. And the cultists of other gods go to those gods' afterlives sometimes."

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"And what is Hell like, for the dead people?"

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"In Hell you are perfected and made a worthy tool of Asmodeus's project." By rote.

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"...uh-huh. How's that work exactly."

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"Hell has expertise in correcting the flaws in human minds and hearts and using as much of us as we make available in rebuilding us into devils."

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"...by what methods."

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"If you are squeamish about students getting eaten when they make mistakes you probably won't like it."

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"Thanks, I appreciate the accommodation of my tender sensibilities. Uh, apsels, like me, are normally summoned - in the place where we are normally summoned - because we can make arbitrary material objects."

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"Huh. With what duration?"

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"Pardon?"

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"How long does stuff last when you make it."

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"Forever? It's a problem, back home the cities are all built on heaps of out of fashion crap."

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"I need to figure out how I got - you - instead of the thing I was trying to get -"

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"Yeah, I don't know, this doesn't look like a traditional apsel circle but it's still clearly working..."

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"The question is whether we can reproduce it." She has pulled out a notebook and is copying it down. "If it grabs a random demon and grabs an apsel sometimes then that's going to be practically useless, because there are infinite demons, but maybe we can also summon apsels by name - do you know if things you make can be used as spell components -"

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"I don't know. I can show you a traditional apsel circle -" He grabs his computer off his belt and looks one up. "- which includes the option to try for specific ones by name -"

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Her expression has spent the last minute toggling between terrified and fascinated but the computer pulls it over towards fascinated. "What is that?"

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"Chiplock computer! State of the art, apsel-proof..." He finds what he's looking for but then blanks the display rather than open it up. "Now, uh, I'd really like to get out of this circle, have a look around, explore the world."

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"I am considering it possible that this is some kind of loyalty test and I am being bribed with fabulous wealth and unfamiliar magic to contemplate letting a demon loose in Egorian with the supposed ability to bury it in rubble."

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"I don't really go in for that but I suppose I don't know if you have any way to, like, detect lies."

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"That's a cleric spell. I - yeah, what I should do here is get them to come over and verify your story." She looks terrified, but only for half a second. 

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"If they decide they don't like the look of me then what?"

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"If people aren't supposed to know about apsels then I guess they'll kill us both." She folds up her notebook and tries to wave for her teacher.

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"I'm immortal."

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"I figured, only the Material Plane has mortals."

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"So, I'd bet against them being able to kill me, but I'd rather they didn't kill you either, what's, uh, best practices on that."

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"...why do you have a preference about that at all?"

 

"One minute!" her teacher calls at her across the hall.

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"Call me squeamish," Cam says.

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"Well. I think you should mostly shut up and let me talk, and I'll say that you claim to be an apsel which is a weird kind of demon whose supernatural ability is permanent conjuration, and if apsels aren't previously documented I want to do a research project on them, for the greater glory of Cheliax and of Hell, and you can say what you'd want in exchange for some permanent conjuration, and it should be something - expensive enough that it doesn't feel like there's necessarily a catch, like rare magical creatures or albino gnome slaves or something."

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"Can't be, like, 'the run of the place'?"

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"I mean, you can ask for that, but I doubt they'll go for it."

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"Okay, so as a backup what's on offer, I don't want anything sapient but I could unload a magical animal or object at home."

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"There are probably thousands of magical animals and objects I could get you if you can make spell components. Or if you can't do that but you can - build fortresses and bridges and such. Adventurers tend to like mental and physical enhancement, Rings of Sustenance, spell resistance, bags of holding..."

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"Ooh, mental enhancement sounds fun. I can do fortresses and bridges and such... what sorts of things are spell components?"

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"Diamonds. Also spellsilver. If you can do either of those then I can get you whatever you want."

 

           The teacher walks over, peers at Cam and at the circle. "What kind of demon were you aiming for?"

"I specified magic-user, and didn't otherwise. He says he's an apsel, and that they do permanent conjurations."

            The teacher squints at Cam. "Chaotic Good," he says after a moment, his tone very cold.

"Ah," says Carissa. "That explains some things. Should I kill it?"

           "What things does that explain?"

"Well, why I'd never heard of that kind. And it was very upset about the student who failed to contain his demon."

             "It leaves unexplained how you summoned it."

Carissa's face has gone very blank. "I'm Lawful Evil. You can check."

              "I have. - I'm going to get the priest. Stay here."

Carissa nods.

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"...Good and Evil are magically detectable things?"

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"Yes. Did you also not know that, of course you didn't know that."

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"We are mutually ignorant of so many things about each other. I can do diamonds. I don't know what spellsilver is but I can try if you let me."

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"I think I'm kind of in a lot of trouble but I'm sure someone'll let you. Spellsilver's what we use to make magic items. I have some here -" She reaches into a bag on the floor and pulls out a little vial with oil and a lump of a silvery metal floating in the oil.

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"I can't tell by looking if it's something I can make, I'd have to try it."

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She looks uncertainly over at the door the teacher left through. 

The question is what this is testing, if it's a test. Presumably her obedience. Presumably getting the demon to make a lot of diamonds is failing the test. Of course, if the demon can make a lot of diamonds, then it's not a test at all, it's real, and in that case - she doesn't want to get in trouble - she's already in trouble - being unambitious was always a good way to be more of an asset than a liability but now suddenly a Carissa who's merely a fourth-circle caster is quite expendable in the face of what she's gotten herself into and she needs -

- she reaches for her headband. "This is, to the best of my fairly reliable knowledge, a headband that increases the intelligence of the wearer. I'm not offering anything yet but I'm interested in negotiating a deal in which I give it to you for four Raise Dead grade diamonds and enough spellsilver to make another one, are you potentially interested in a deal along those lines."

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"- yes! I don't know if I can make the spellsilver but I will be happy to try."

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"Is that enough of a specification of how much I want or do you need a weight or something."

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"I need weights for the spellsilver and for the diamonds."

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"One ounce of spellsilver. A Raise-Dead grade diamond weighs - I have never thought about this, sorry - seven thousandths of an ounce? And is this big across." She gestures at about the size of diamond one might find on a wedding ring. "I propose a deal in which you use your supernatural abilities only to attempt to make two ounces of spellsilver and four pure diamonds that reflect your best understanding of my instructions on their size and shape, and in exchange, regardless of your results, I give you my headband, which I have strong reason to think magically enhances intelligence."

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"I'm okay with that deal."

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She's not certified yet and also panicking and it's possible that she just said something very stupid actually, but also the default outcome at this point is that she's under a ton of suspicion - 

- "Deal. Then."

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Diamonds. - Spellsilver. "Uh, that didn't allow me to make the vial with the oil, so you might need to get a spare of that."

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"I know how spellsilver oxidizes, I'll be able to tell if you really did it. And I'll only lose about five percent of it." She's staring at it, wide-eyed. 

 

 

"- I"m not Good and I'm not about to be but if you wanted to help me out you could - not tell them how to summon more apsels, or summon you back -"

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"Noted."

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If it's a test that would be - failing quite spectacularly - but while she's a bit too panicked to reproduce her reasoning she remembers having concluded that if it's real, it wasn't a test.

 

She hands him her headband and immediately feels stupider and watches the spellsilver oxidize.

 

The priest comes back. Carissa kneels.

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The priest reaches for the holy symbol at his neck and says something incomprehensible. Carissa shivers.

 

"A Chaotic Good outsider showing up in this summoning circle," he says thoughtfully. "Did you do it deliberately?"

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"I voluntarily answered the summon."

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"Are you usually able to answer summons targeting demons?"

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"I am usually able to answer summons targeting apsels, my variety of demon."

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He looks at Carissa. "Did you deliberately try to get an apsel?"

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"No. I didn't know apsels existed. I assumed when it arrived that they were some rare undocumented kind of demon I'd gotten by lucky chance."

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Back to Cam. "What god or lord do apsels answer to?"

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"We're too chaotic for that sort of thing."

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"What do you want?"

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"The opportunity to run around and see the world, do magic for personal use and for others as the whim strikes me, magic items." He puts the headband on. "- ooh, I like this one."

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"You gave it your headband?"

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"The apsel's claims seemed of momentous import to the Crown and the Church if true, but plausibly some sort of horrible Chaotic game, or a ploy by our adversaries, so I negotiated a trade of a personal item for spellsilver and diamonds so as to know whether it was worth your time. The result strikes me as evidence that it isn't a ploy; had our adversaries such abilities, we would be charged with preparing to defend Cheliax or defeat them preemptively, and we are not so charged."

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"It might turn back."

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"Detects as nonmagical. And it's oxidizing. I won't know for sure until I try to use it, but - the Chaotic planes are infinite, it follows almost necessarily that there are infinite multitudes among them which could be useful to Asmodeus in some way..."

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"Hand it off to me, we'll look into it further."

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"Can you instruct me in how to do that, I have never handed off negotiating power with a bound outsider before."

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"Ask him to accept me as negotiating in your stead under the same conditions as established in the circle and verbally previously."

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She repeats this.

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"Supposing I don't," he says lightly.

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"What do you want for it? I can get you a better headband."

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"Yeah, so can she if she lets me keep making her supplies, I'm guessing."

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The priest looks baffled. "- yes? But we have far more resources, and can arrange things sooner, and she works for us."

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"I mean, you won't have far more resources for very long, if she lets me make her stuff."

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"...Hell backs Cheliax. Even if you made her a mountain of spellsilver, we'd have more than that - and be able to do more with it - did you know her before she summoned you twenty minutes ago -"

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"Nah."

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"Do you want to transfer negotiating authority, work with us, rule a duchy, and also fuck the girl, we can arrange that."

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"I have this weird, rare kink you may not have heard of where I'm only into consenting partners, so, uh, go jump in a lake."

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"I wonder," says Carissa, "if you are too perfectly made in our Lord's image to appeal as a target to this apsel. Here in Egorian, surely no greater force save Asmodeus could have intervened to bring this unlikely thing to pass, and I am the one it was bound to; perhaps there is something in me that makes the apsel willing to negotiate. We serve Asmodeus even in our weakness. And if I become a heretic you can always just kill me."

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"You're very opinionated," the priest says, in nearly the same tone Carissa said it to Cam, earlier.

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"I want to use it to see Cheliax triumph at the Worldwound. I would collaborate with Good, for that, because Asmodeus would, and has. I've been there five years. With this, I could end it in five more. Kill me or get out of my way, but stop alienating my valuable resource by trying to find common ground that does not exist between the two of you, because in being worthy of Asmodeus you've made yourself pure of it."

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"You had better hope you're right that this is as valuable as you think it is."

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"If it wasn't you'd have killed me already."

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"What, uh, is the Worldwound."

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"There is a big hole in the fabric of reality and demons keep streaming through it trying to destroy the world. And everyone, Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic, whatever, disapproves because we live here. So it seems like a place where I expect we have common ground."

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"Sure, that does sound like real bad news."

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"I need to pray on this."

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"Of course. I can finish my summoning exam in the meantime. - I pass," she adds to her teacher. "There's nothing wrong with the circle."

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"There does not appear to be anything wrong with the circle," he confirms.

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Cam applauds lightly.

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The priest departs. 

"You're going to get yourself killed," Carissa's teacher observes to her.

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"I noticed. Want a diamond? You could raise me, if I got killed some way other than righteously for deserving it and you wanted to know where the treasure was buried."

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"I'd need a bigger diamond."

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"True Resurrection-grade diamonds are...twenty-six thousandths of an ounce, and this big across, you can use your supernatural powers only to make one of those in exchange for coming back to my dorm and sightseeing along the way, deal? It's not a very long way and I don't know it to have any interesting sights."

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"What, so you can bribe this jerk?"

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"I think calling it a bribe implies a level of inexperience and incompetence with it that makes one a worse collaborator for it and makes it more expensive. But yeah, I want to arrange for people who might know the reasons they might want to resurrect me to also have the means, since I am doing a thing that might get me killed."

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"Who's going to kill you?"

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"I mean, plausibly kind of a lot of people? Cheliax has enemies, probably some people benefit from Cheliax having to save the world from the Worldwound and don't want it closed, there are people who mine spellsilver who might end up out of a job....also I might get determined to be a heretic but obviously then he won't resurrect me."

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He sighs. "Deal." He presents her with the diamond. It's pink because why not.

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"...I don't know if that'll work," says the teacher dubiously. 

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"The new research possibilities are endless."

 

And she walks out.

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Cam follows her, tail aswish.

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They walk out the door and down paved streets with five or six story brick buildings. No one looks particularly startled at the sight of Cam, though most of the locals look like normal humans. Carissa rounds two corners, opens a locked door with a metal key, climbs three flights of stairs all in silence. Opens another locked door. Closes it. Locks it again.

 

"Well. This is my place. If you don't need anything immediately I'm gonna figure out whether stuff you conjure is in fact usable for magic item creation."

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"I would like permission to conjure my correspondence and some reading material."

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"Conjure your correspondence?" Her apartment is three rooms, the bedroom and sitting-room rather sparse and the office full of books and diagrams and paper and jewelry, and also quite nicely decorated. She sets the spellsilver and diamonds down there, puts them in a box, closes it with magic.

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"It's how apsels mostly communicate - one writes a letter, the other conjures a copy."

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"Can you conjure anything that is itself magic, explosive runes, scrolls..."

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"Nope."

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She of course shouldn't fully trust him on that, she doesn't have Zone of Truth. "You can conjure less than one bottle of ink and less than one this-sized sheaf of parchment paper, with the ink configured on the paper in any nonmagical way you'd like, as part of ongoing negotiations about how to close the Worldwound and advance other shared aims."

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"...yeah, I can make do with that." He doesn't immediately conjure any correspondence; he pulls out his computer and does stuff to that instead. He seems to be controlling it with his mind.

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She has no expectations about how else you'd control an extremely fancy illusion-thing, if you possessed one. 

 

She checks whether the spellsilver works for enchanting. It behaves...totally normally. Also working on enchanting is much less stressful and she's kind of tempted to just work on it until she's not terrified but that's a bad plan that'll probably get her killed.

 

What isn't a bad plan that'll probably get her killed?

 

 

"Uh," she says after giving this question kind of a lot of thought. "Probably we should talk and figure out if we have any non-Worldwound common interests. Maybe in making a lot of money, since you can do all kinds of things with lots of money?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can do all kinds of things with money. I am currently interestingly limited in what kinds of things I could do with money."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, you can - I don't really know what Chaotic Good people like - free slaves? Buy lots of fancy magic items? Commission statues of yourself from great artists? Get really drunk on Nefreti Clepati's wine? Explore the stars?"

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"I could do those things if you let me go shopping. I can't if you don't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So my plan here is to close, and end up ruling, the Worldwound, and I can only do this plan if we have lots and lots of common ground so you can assume you will get to do lots of shopping."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...the Worldwound is a desirable territory to rule?"

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"No, it's a horrifying void opening on the Abyss and horribly mangled by the century of demons warping it and everyone who used to live there is dead. But we were planning to fix that, right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, yes, but has it got, like, a great location, or is its virtue mostly being currently very undesirable so you can get in on the ground floor."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, it's really far north and landlocked and kind of sucks in every way." 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Gotcha. Uh, are you planning to rule the place as an extension of this abusive authoritarian theocracy situation or do you want to, like, defect once that's safe and run the world's richest exporter of everything, because I will kind of be wanting to bottleneck your resources in the first case a lot but have no problem with enabling the second thing."

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"- I wouldn't be doing people a favor, if I shaped them all wrong for surviving in Hell."

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"And you seem so concerned about doing people favors, I can see why that would be a prohibitive concern."

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"So, what, you think I should, like, make the Worldwound some kind of fucking Cayden Cailien paradise and rack up a lot of Good points and fuck off to Elysium personally and figure I'll be able to adapt fine once Hell conquers it, and fuck over everyone who lived there for all eternity? ...do you really get the Good points if you do it that way?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not familiar with your cultural references or your point system."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cayden Cailean is a Chaotic Good god. His primary interest is in drunkenness, and he reportedly ascended because he'd hooked up with Desna, who is another Chaotic Good god whose thing is wandering the stars. I have no particular reason to believe designing a society inspired by either of them would be a good place to be, but presumably you would get lots of Good points for it, which means you get a Good afterlife, until Asmodeus conquers it, and He'll probably take a long time to get to Elysium because, like, it's infinite and also not really worth bothering with. I guess if I really desperately wanted Elysium I could try this but it seems like a very stupid thing to try and I don't especially want Elysium anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have you considered that Asmodeus's impending conquest is under the circumstances reasonably likely to be propaganda? I have no special knowledge here," yet, "but it seems probable."

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"Everybody's got deployments at the Worldwound and we did talk and their argument against Asmodeus conquering the other afterlives was "okay, he did kill Aroden at the height of His power and take His country and all its people and He is getting more powerful every generation but that shouldn't be used to form any expectations about the future!""

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suspect your interpretation of being uncharitable but, okay, you are at least interpreting a non-propaganda source. Is the resistance to Asmodeus predicated on things like... spellsilver, diamonds, powerful outsider allies, technological advancement..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't ....think gods fight with any of those things. It'd be like ants trying to decide how to intervene in a human war and being like, maybe they need really really big piles of ant food, maybe they need to be really resistant to ant poison, maybe we should build rafts with our bodies to carry them across that stream over there..."

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"Okay, so this is all small potatoes, but we will still work far more cooperatively if you are not planning to run a satellite arm of this shit, at least provisionally before I have had a chance to talk to someone from somewhere, uh, else, and integrate multiple perspectives."

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"Okay. Just the Worldwound, no plans for what happens with the Worldwound afterwards yet. In that case I think I need - Boots of Teleport, which they sell in Absalom, and a scroll of it to get to Absalom, and then we can go north and get to work."

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"I can't make the magic things."

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"I can buy them with spellsilver. I think it's best to leave pretty soon, I'm going to leave a letter affirming my loyalty and swearing I won't cause them any trouble and then we can head out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...'kay."

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably judgment from a Chaotic Good entity is actively a good sign about her reasonableness.

 

She writes,

In my capacity as unit wizard in Her Majesty's Eleventh I witnessed how the necessity of defending the Worldwound weakened Cheliax. I think it was with the intent of freeing us from this burden for a greater destiny that Asmodeus delivered the apsel into my possession, and I intend to with its powers close the Worldwound. How this can be achieved should be self-evident to any Chelish citizen with the slightest imagination, so it seems likely that the apsel was delivered to me not just for my capacity for this task but for other positive qualities that equip me to carry it out -- and, perhaps, for negative ones, such as whatever makes the apsel like me.

I have been a proud soldier of Cheliax since I came of age. My parents are the proud owners of a merchant company in Corentyn, and my older brother intends to succeed them. My sister followed in my footsteps in the Corentyn Academy of Wizardry, and intended to follow me in the defense of our nation northward, though now I have no doubt you'll deploy her elsewhere. I am a subject of Queen Abrogail II and a soul seeking Asmodeus, and it is in my dedication to their service that I intend to close the Worldwound, so that our great nation can set its sights elsewhere. It is a mission in which I expect many enemies of our state will oppose me, so I will be employing the apsel's extraordinary abilities to secure my own person in your service. It had been my intent to delay my departure, despite the urgency of the situation in the north and the urgency with which Queen Abrogail II has charged us with her service, so as to arrange good lines of communication, but my apsel has made me aware it has the ability to conjure instances of letters addressed to it, and presumably also to me, so it seems wisest for me to depart in advance of my orders, eagerly awaiting them.

Cheliax does not raise weak-hearted children. It has the strength to raise great ones.

 

Your loyal servant,

Carissa Sevar

 

 

All her possessions fit in one suitcase. She packs them.

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The apsel is doing stuff with his illusion-stick-thing. He peeps at her letter. "Carissa. That's pretty," he remarks. "I'm Cam."

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'Figure out whether the apsel is flirting with her' goes on her to-do list which is already excessively long. "Cam," she repeats. "Can I convince you to wear a shirt so you're less conspicuous?"

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"You can if you let me make one. I could put a coat over the wings and tail too, if you like, they fold up real small."

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"That would be convenient. Using only cloth, and less than 40 square feet of it, you can make a shirt and coat pursuant to ongoing deals."

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"I was gonna go for leather, is leather conspicuous? It'll hide the wings better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Leather is fine. I'm just supposed to specify something so you can't do, I don't know, live dragons. Using leather and cloth and less than 40 square feet of it, you can make a shirt and coat."

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Shirt! Coat! "That would have required further annoying rigmarole if I needed to have any of this stitched as opposed to just behaving like it grew on a very oddly shaped cow," he remarks.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do apsels even how cows, I feel like if your conjurations are permanent there's not a lot of reason to bother."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some people have cows as a hobby but we do not cultivate them for cheese and shoes."

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"I guess bullfighting would still be popular." She hands him her suitcase. "Let's go."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You probably don't want me to carry this, I'm liable to trip a lot without my extra appendages loose for balance."

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"There are magic items for that, too." She takes her suitcase back and heads down the stairs.

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"Snazzy." He follows along.

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She heads for the magic shop not too far from where she lives where she takes commissions. Brings her new spellsilver, now jarred, to the counter. "I want to trade you for a scroll of teleport."

 

"- I've been warned you've picked up a counterfeiting hobby," the guy says. 

"Counterfeiting spell silver? Do you want me to turn it into something in front of you?"

"...I've been warned that, as you're suspected of counterfeiting, I shouldn't sell you the means to leave the country, whether or not you pay for it in counterfeit."

"Want to come with me?"

"Get out of my shop."

 

 

She bites her lip, takes Cam's arm, and -

- they're in an alleyway somewhere else. "Probably means they have decided to arrest me. I need to think."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we fly there very fast in a vehicle I know how to make and pilot does that work? Uh, I don't think one will fit in this alley but the average back yard will work."

Permalink Mark Unread

" - probably. How fast. Is the middle of the road enough space?"

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"I can do, uh, three, four times the speed of sound safely in atmo but we won't go that fast immediately, have to accelerate, and yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The speed of sound? You can make anything standard for a flying vehicle that can get us to Absalom, in the road over there."

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"Sound has a speed, that's why lightning is visible before you hear the thunder, light also has a speed but it's much faster." He steps into the road and appears a shuttle. The door opens.

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She lugs her suitcase onto the shuttle, looking like she'd be very impressed if she wasn't very stressed.

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The door closes behind her. The shuttle lifts off. The window turns from a window into a screen display that shows what's under them in one pane and what's in front in another. "Which way?"

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"East. And a bit south." She's trembling. 

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"Which way is that, I don't have GPS here."

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"Uh, I always lose my sense of north when I Dim Door - uh, if you see the ocean, that runs east to west, and it's got a strait on the west end, and Absalom is an island on the eastern part where it opens south..."

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"And we're north of the ocean now? Okay," He goes higher, and they accelerate.

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She grips the window and looks down at the world. "Hopefully they won't call ahead to the Worldwound? I bet they won't."

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"And if they do?"

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"I'll...pray?" She doesn't say this like she strongly expects that to work. "I - if they think I'm going to turn on them they'll send assassins, if they think I'm not going to then they should stay out of my way, I feel like reasonably they should stay out of my way if they're not sure as long as I might not turn on them, because if I get halfway through then at least I've gotten half of the work done for them, but also I guess I'll get harder to assassinate and they might feel a need to get on it while they still can. Quite possibly they just meant to Geas me and now I've escalated by running off, only, it doesn't feel very stable, to be trying appeasement rather than cooperation -

- I should check the wording of the Worldwound treaty, maybe they can't assassinate me there."

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Cam makes it for her, on parchment with ink.

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She reads. "I think they can. They can't, like, assassinate the paladins, but every country can handle discipline internally in its usual fashion and, well, it's hard to argue that ours isn't occasionally assassinating people for getting dangerously out of line." She is tempted to ask her apsel if he thinks she's dangerously out of line but this answer would be pretty much no information, really.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you officially defect, get under another country's protection?"

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"Yes but - I would prefer not to, if there is another way to be safe and get anything done. My family's here. Cheliax is - most countries wouldn't've trained me as a wizard in the first place. And Cheliax is the only place guided by Asmodeus and Asmodeus is going to win."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...should we stop and grab your family on the way out?"

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"Well, then I'm definitely making myself a threat, right, if I offer them hostages and then immediately go and steal them all. And I don't think they'd appreciate it. I wouldn't appreciate it, if one of them had decided to get into a stupid fight."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okay. Can you... get shelter from another country without formally defecting to it, or is everyone at the Worldwound going to hand you over on account of this treaty."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So my bet would be that someone just got anxious and told the magic item store not to buy me counterfeit while they hauled me in to posture at again and maybe collect a bribe, and since that failed they'll read my note and decide to just tell their superiors that I seem to have intent that serves Cheliax and the ideal time to assassinate me is once I'm done serving Cheliax or once they figure out how to summon apsels themselves on purpose. And so I predict that the people at the Worldwound won't have been told to hand me over and it'll just go fine. But maybe someone had already staked their credibility on me being a problem, which would be a stupid thing to do without me in hand but sometimes people are stupid, in which case they'll probably have assassins at the Worldwound? And I can just kill the assassins and write home being like "I knew that evil foreign agents were going to oppose Cheliax in the great work of closing the Worldwound! and then that person will get kiled and someone more sensible will be in charge.... they're probably not going to double down all the way up the chain of command on their soldier who is closing the Worldwound and hasn't any heretical opinions being a public enemy. At least that's how I was betting. But I guess I could get killed before it makes it all the way up the chain of command. Maybe I can spend some time in hiding, making magic stuff, before I go to the Worldwound. Think about this when I'm less stupid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. You could, uh, hide in Absalom, or wherever, and I could go fix the Worldwound by myself? You'd be useful as a native guide but I can probably find someone else."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't really think you could fix the Worldwound by yourself and also that sounds like it'd involve giving you very broad making-stuff rights without any ability to check if I like the results. Or way to, like, make you stop making things if you get mind-controlled by some of the demons at the Worldwound."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...mind control! Yikes! Suppose you tell me about that."

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"Enchantment is a school of magic. It lets you make people find you unnaturally compelling or trustworthy, or do what you say, or kneel in your presence, or just stop taking actions, or whatever. Most demons are not possessed with a lot of subtlety but scary ones've still got Dominate Monster, which just makes you do whatever they want, and if you manage to also make the enemy of devils, which you seem like you somehow might, they can do subtler stuff."

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"Are there magic items about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I don't know how to make anything that'd make you persistently immune but I could learn, maybe, once I have an in with extremely powerful wizards."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can we buy something for it in Absalom. If I make you more stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can buy things that'll help. Total immunity is - I haven't actually heard of an item with that effect, probably you'd want something off Mind Blank which is eighth-circle, and continuous, it'd be - few enough people in the world who can make it that I wouldn't expect to find one for sale in Absalom no matter how much we pay for it. We could commission it, I guess, and I could try to learn enough about how it ought to work that I could tell if the person who filled the commission left a backdoor..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Let's load me up on things that would help. You have left me several openings to kill you, the binding's working but it's not that great, and if someone got ahold of me just so I could destroy the planet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Asmodeus wants the planet around, I don't think you'd be permitted to destroy it. But we've lost continents before and that would be very very awful if it happened again."

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"Yeah, I could do that too, though it would actually be slightly more labor-intensive, so if someone carelessly got ahold of me and wanted a continent gone..."

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"The continents have different magical traditions and if you destroy one you might lose information we could use to get you good magic stuff," she says neutrally, as if 'reasons Cam shouldn't destroy continents' is the thing they were discussing and that's probably the one he'd find most compelling. 

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"I don't want to destroy any continents, Carissa, you have just told me that mind control exists!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am going to do my absolute best about the mind control but it seemed worth also making the case that the continents are useful, I don't know how obvious it seems!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't want to destroy continents, I assure you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool! Me neither! We'll just keep them all, maybe add a few new ones. Do you want to teach me how to make deals better so there are no openings through which you could be obliged to destroy a continent?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You haven't left me continent-destroying openings."

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"Well, that's good I guess.

 

 

 

 

Was there other stuff you wanted to know? About Golarion?"

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"...yeah, sure, suppose you were trying to explain Golarion to someone with a totally different, uh, cosmology and magic system."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- I guess that follows. Uh, Golarion is a planet, it's one of thousands maybe millions of planets on the Material Plane. Accessible by magic from Golarion are the Inner Planes - so called because they're also adjacent to each other, and there's a sort of popular plane-configuration where they're sort of inside ours - of Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and positive and negative energy, and the Outer Planes, of which there are nine, defined in god-terms but comprehensible to humans as representing every combination of the god-forces of Law and Evil. Law is the tendency to follow rules, to do things for reasons, to have hierarchy and obedience and goals and to sacrifice in the present for a better future. Chaos is the force of freedom and randomness and doing whatever you want. Evil is the tendency to - want to have results in the world, to try to do things, to be willing to make sacrifices towards a greater goal. Good wants everyone to live uneventful lives as farmers or gatherers, I think. So the nine afterlives are Lawful Evil, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Neutral, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil, Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good.

 

The gods have domains in the afterlives and intervene sometimes in Golarion, mostly by naming the priests who can do miracles in their service. That's one kind of magic. Another kind is my kind, which just involves shaping magic to do your will; that's called being a wizard, or some people get an innate faculty for it and do it without study and are sorcerers. Alternatively you can make pacts with extraplanar entities less than gods for power. There are lots and lots of other kinds of magic users but I think most of them are basically some specialized version of one of those things."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So, uh, your description of evil sounds totally unrelated to your abusive authoritarian theocracy situation, but if you'd asked me to guess, I would have suspected based on the word that those were closely related."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, it might be? You were upset about there being punishments for incompetence, that's the kind of thing that's Evil, and about people pursuing their own goals instead of dropping them to go rescue someone else, that's the kind of thing that's Evil."

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"I have been known to have results in the world - on purpose! Things that were actually substantially opposed to a widespread farming or gathering lifestyle! - and make sacrifices for them. And I read Good, apparently."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. What things?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ended material scarcity for billions of people."

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"- huh. I guess maybe it depends how you go about it but I would've expected almost all possible ways of going about that to be Evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh? Just because it's ambitious?"

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"And because - Good's awfully narrow, right, there's such a tiny list of ways of doing things that's Good-approved, and in the course of doing anything actually ambitious I'd expect you'd have to - step outside the lines, even if you started out more sympathetic to Good - or more squeamish - than I am -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suspect that's why I read Chaotic, but I didn't have to hurt anybody."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lots of things are Evil that aren't hurting people. Or that hurt people but aren't bad for them, like dentistry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What things are Evil that aren't hurting people?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Making a lot of money. Worshipping Asmodeus, or convincing other people to, or worshipping some other Evil god, or convincing other people to. Casting Evil spells, including infernal healing, which is the only healing spell we have. Necromancy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wow, making a lot of money is evil? Do people mostly take vows of poverty if they wanna be Good? I guess I didn't happen to make any money. I don't know enough about your gods or magic to guess at the others."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think they mostly give their wealth to their Good church? Paladins are mostly allowed their fancy Evil-slaying gear but you wouldn't expect one to have, like, a nice house. Maybe you just happened not to break any of the rules but you'd have gotten really lucky. What if someone had tried to stop you from ending material scarcity and you'd had to defend yourself, would you have?"

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"I did operate in secret for that reason! Later someone found out and was mad and murdered me."

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"Ah. I guess if material scarcity is solved and you can just have resurrections in lieu of self-defense that also might create a society in which people aren't Evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- oh, no, I wasn't resurrected, I turned into an apsel instead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah, okay. Do you like it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do! I was pretty bummed about being out of touch with my parents but now they're dead too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've heard it said that it's better to die young but," Shrug. "There's not a known fact of the matter about it."

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"Why is that said here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, because you're not really useful alive, unless you're a very unusual person, and everyone can be useful, in death. And because to the extent you are useful alive it's mostly as a young person, right, when you can be a soldier and have children. And also because you might develop habits of mind, in life - stubbornness, quiet personal heresies - that are going to make it harder than it needs to be to fix you afterwards."

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"Yikes!" Since they are on a shuttle Cam shrugs out of his coat, though the shirt stays on, and stretches his wings. "Well, things don't work that way where I'm from."

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"There are places that aren't like Cheliax on Golarion! They're all worse, but they exist."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Worse how?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, uh, in most of them women don't have rights! Cheliax is the only country that'd pay for me to go to school. Nidal worships the god of torture and they just torture everyone all the time, not even because it improves them in any way but just for fun. Andoran has like half their kids starving in orphanages because they banned abortion suddenly. Taldor has a civil war every five years, sometimes they're in a hurry so they do it every three. Osirion's a theocracy under the pharaoh who has, like, three hundred concubines and no one's allowed to talk to him directly and it's illegal to doubt that he's literally a god. Thuvia is being invaded by daemons from Abaddon. Katapesh has half their human population enslaved.  Numeria is ruled by a drunk barbarian who ordered all the nation's grain made into an enormous alcohol pool for him to paddle a raft around in. They lost almost everyone under five that winter, a guy I met from there said. Galt has overthrown its government like ten times in the last twenty years. They execute people with special guillotines that trap the soul so it can't make it to an afterlife."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Half their human population, that's specific."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cheliax doesn't have human slavery at all." Smugly. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not, uh, impressed with you for enslaving gnomes or whatever instead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if I were a gnome I guess I might be upset about gnome slavery, if people got kidnapped into it or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am generically anti-slavery, fun fact. I don't think 'chaotic good' will mostly make especially fine-grained predictions about me but in this particular case I, uh, assume the standard chaotic good opinion is anti-slavery? If it's not you have some pretty cut-rate chaos and good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Chaotic good people are extremely against slavery. In Andoran they raid the Underdark to rescue slaves, hijack ships, all that stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool, good for them. All they need is competent social services and they sound like they'll be all set."

Permalink Mark Unread

Carissa looks skeptical but doesn't comment. She looks out the window instead. "That's probably Absalom. The one shaped kind of like a star."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's neat looking! Do you have an idea where I should land this thing or do you want me to hover it and give you a parachute?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most of the island's uninhabitable, I bet we can get right near the city and still land somewhere people mostly won't notice. We should hurry just in case Cheliax does send assassins."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, point me at something you like the look of." He descends and puts up a picture of the island that grows as they approach.

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As promised it is dead volcanic ash right up to the edges of the city. 

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She puts her hair up and points out a landing site. "You can if you'd like make half a pound of spellsilver in vials identical to the one I first showed you, in exchange for a fancier headband and any anti-mind-control items I can find and purchase for that price in Absalom."

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He assembles them in neat little rows on the floor. "Are you putting up your hair as a disguise, do you want, like, a quick amateur makeup job, prosthetic elf ears - do you have elves - hair dye -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm gonna do an illusion, but it's easier if it has less to cover. We have elves. An illusion can do my ears but if you want to do clothes that are, I dunno, typically Galtan, that'd be helpful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know fuckall about Galtan clothes, name a Galtan about your size and I can grab whatever they're wearing today?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I don't actually know the names of many Galtans.... can I have that headband back for a second." 

Permalink Mark Unread

He hands it over.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Marie-Louis Emilia Lucia Champlain de Cortesar. Thanks."

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He offers her an outfit.

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She strips and puts it on, apparently unselfconsciously, and then does the illusion. It makes her look somewhat more northern European, in Earth terms, and less pretty, and about ten years older. "All right. If I'm not back in an hour and you didn't take any actions that predictably would've had the consequence of delaying my return you can do conjuration necessary to find and rescue me, if you feel like it." 

 

And off she goes.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam hangs out in the shuttle and does some background reading. Does this planet have newspapers? Let's read newspapers.

Permalink Mark Unread

The planet does have newspapers. Big broadsheets covering the latest triumphs of Galt in the River Lands and the flight of Grand Prince Stavian's traitor cousin from Taldor and a royal wedding in Korvosa and a series of ships lost at sea off the coast of Katapesh. In smaller print there's lots more: fashions, news updates, products for sale, religious evangelizing...

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He skims newspapers, getting a feel for the place. Then he checks up on his correspondence, which hopefully has been busily researching the world for him in massive parallel - ah, yes - he has to be careful with his paper allotment, he does it in really small print.

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They've found out a lot more! The executive summary is that the gods seem to be real, for the most part assholes, and Asmodeus-ruled Cheliax among the worst of the lot on that front (though admittedly not on the other fronts Carissa quoted him on, like child mortality and material scarcity and women's rights). Good and Evil mostly track the very obvious things - helping people is Good, charity is Good, defense of the innocent is Good, mercy and generosity and so on - but there are some confusing exceptions, like necromancy being Evil despite not to Hell's moral sensibilities being very bad. Abortion is Evil because the afterlife is full of neglected babies with no one to look after them, half-raising themselves. 

In Carissa's Hell people are tortured for centuries in the course of being shaped into devils. Almost everyone from Cheliax goes there. They have routine mindreading for loyalty and execute outliers. 

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Wow, yikes! Do they know anything Carissa didn't tell him about dealing with all the mind-affecting magic -

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There seems to be lots of it, mostly done by spellcasters and powerful sapient creatures. They haven't found any references to sure ways of blocking it. He could live on the Moon and do everything by drone, that's one of the best ideas so far.

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The lag would be terrible! Also he would need Carissa's permission!

He checks the computer's clock when it feels like it's been about an hour of reading.

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It has in fact been an hour.

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...and Carissa and her surroundings are -

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Alley in the city of Absalom. Her clothes seem - kind of shredded? But she looks intact and on her way in a hurry.

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Is there anyone around her, how far away is she -

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Maybe half a mile. There are some people nearby and...maybe some farther back in pursuit?

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...okay. Optimal extraction protocol...

...probably he could just fly over and yank her into the ship with bungee cords, honestly, but that might not be a great idea, slightly exposed.

He lifts off for line of sight, makes a telescope, and gets a bead on her direct enough that he can conjure onto the scene. Pursuers still pursuing?

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A couple of them, yeah. They seem to be - uniformed?

 

Carissa ducks into an alleyway and illusions herself again into a crippled beggar and huddles against the wall.

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Hmmm, does it count as part of rescuing her if - okay, little speaker in her collar. "Do you need me or do you have it under control?"

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- startle. - life goes by so quickly," she mumbles to the wall. "But you do always get there in the end. You just want to make sure you don't have any unwelcome company."

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"I'm going to take that as a deal-with-uniformed-pursuit? I can see you, you can nod or shake your head."

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Nod.

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Uniformed pursuit is tied up. He tries to time it to make it a soft landing.

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Carissa proceeds out to the shuttle at a run, apparently unpursued now.

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He takes off as soon as she's aboard. "What was that about?"

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"Someone tried to mug me and I wasn't sure if they were just a mugger or an assassin and I'd bought a necklace of Fireballs so I detonated one. They were just a mugger. You're - allowed to use lethal force in response to violence but apparently not Fireball, in Absalom, because they worry about fires, which is reasonable enough of them." Sigh. "I got two bags of holding, one for each of us, and two necklaces of proof against detection and location which should make it more inconvenient for Cheliax to spy on his, and I got you a ring of Mind Shielding, which makes you immune to mindreading and Discern Lies and Detect Alignment, but doesn't do anything against mind control. One man told me he'd heard of mind-buttressing as an enchantment you can do on armor. He didn't have any on hand but I'm an armor enchanter and can make it for you if I can learn enough about it. He wasn't sure anything had been written about it - it's a rare technique - but you could check, right? And in the meantime this is a Rod of Absorption, you have to hold it ready - I can show you how - but then it absorbs spells directed at you. And this is a Cap of the Free Thinker, which improves your odds of throwing off mind control."

She is breathing hard and her breathing isn't especially slowing down now that the emergency is past; she's starting to get kind of flushed as a result. 

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"Sounds like a good shopping trip till the mugging. Uh, are you... okay... I assume you'll turn me down if I offer you anxiolytics or anything..." He starts putting things on.

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"Oh, I'm fine, I'm just having a shock reaction like a fifteen year old in their first combat situation, probably because it's been a long day. What is an anxiolytic? We do in fact drug fifteen year olds who are having shock reactions about their first combat situation, if the combat situation is ongoing. Interferes with learning from it but that's not always the top priority." 

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"A class of drugs that reduce shock reactions."

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"You can make me one you are pretty sure reduces shock reactions but does not kill people, not mixed with any other substances."

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"Uh, if it's not mixed with any other substances I have to put it direct in your bloodstream, they're normally made in pills that have fillers to make them stay pill shaped."

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Carissa doesn't really have a threat model for this but presumably he could've just not told her so that seems...fine? "- sure."

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"And I will also require permission to treat you for allergic or other adverse reactions. In the manner considered best practices at my medical school which was oriented towards arranging the well-being of human patients."

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"Actually, probably I will just be fine in a couple of minutes, thanks." She has taken classes on how to not get summoning-management related decision fatigue and make bad decisions. ...arguably this is a bad decision but she can't think of a way around that.

She clasps her hands so they stop trembling. "Thank you. For coming after me."

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"You're welcome."

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She slides down against the side of the shuttle and tries to think. She'll be better at it once she has a headband. Maybe that's step 1. A headband and a try at mind-buttressing armor for the apsel. Gives Cheliax more time to figure out what to do, but - the more assassinating her isn't possible to do, the less they'll be willing to decide it's what they should do, lest their supervisors be disappointed with their inability to get the results they claimed were necessary....

 

She promised to conjure for orders. 

 

"How sure are you that you can't make magic things?"

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"...I can't make magic things of the kind I'm familiar with but I guess maybe I could copy these things if I tried it."

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"I'm worried they might have put explosive runes in the letter I want to conjure, with my orders from my government, it's probably what I'd do. What's a good way to check... we might need to land, if they did the runes'll blow the shuttle apart."

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"I could make it far away? Or you could let me try to copy these artifacts and if I can't that's suggestive."

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"Explosive runes go off when read, it'd be safe until then. You can try to copy your headband."

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He tries to copy his headband.

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There's a headband!

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Carissa does something with her hand, like brushing a hair out of her eyes except about a foot in front of her. "It's not magical."

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"Yeah, that's what I would expect. Do you want me to fly off somewhere and conjure the orders and read 'em, I can't be exploded."

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"- you have a force damage immunity? I've never heard of anything with a force damage immunity. Ghosts don't have a force damage immunity."

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"...do you want to try doing some force damage to my wing, which I can take off and replace if something does go wrong with this experiment, just to be sure?"

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"Probably a good idea but I don't prep combat spells...I should've grabbed some beads of force instead of the necklace of Fireball, then I'd have been following the law in Absalom, too - I guess I could try to sleep and we could do it in the morning."

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"Okay. Should I fly to the Worldwound while you're napping, or get up in orbit so we're hard to chase, or what."

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"Orbit?"

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"Around the planet? Like the moon."

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She misses her headband. She thinks about it for thirty seconds. "We should do that. I think it'd make it very difficult to teleport to us. If we are by a miracle dragged back to Cheliax in the morning will the shuttle plow into the planet like a moon and make it uninhabitable? That was very bad for magical progress last time it happened and I don't think it'd serve Asmodeus at all."

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"I can tell it what to do if I stop giving it instructions, and have it land on the moon or something."

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"I expect that would be a thing where we have a common goal."

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The shuttle goes up up up.

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Carissa pulls a very thin bedroll out of her suitcase and tries to fall asleep. She does not really succeed at this but, well, eventually it'll work, probably.

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"...I bet the answer is no but: sleeping pills?"

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"I'll pass. Thanks." She has at least mostly stopped trembling.

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"Suit yourself." He catches up on what Hell has to say about Golarion. Makes a note to suggest lead headgear.

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Lead is effective against divinations and scrying. Scrying is relatively cheap and they're probably being spied on continuously. Some people have dug into Carissa's past but there's not much there - she was a top student, joined the military in a basically obligatory fashion, went to the Worldwound, monitored her unit with mindreading for defectors, made and sold a lot of magic items with most of the profits going to Cheliax. She keeps a prayer journal; everything in it is verses from Asmodeus's holy books. 

Golarion has a lot of flashy magic-related problems but most people still die of famine or disease or civil wars not too different from the kind Earth had. Of the flashy magic-related problems the Worldwound is probably the worst, generally projected to destroy the world in a couple of decades. The country of Osirion is a theocracy under the god of commerce and has published some surprisingly high quality statistics on the distribution of afterlives for Osirians.

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Huh, god of commerce, fancy that. If you have to be a theocracy... Is Carissa still awake.

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Yep.

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"I want to line the shuttle, and my skull, and perhaps a hat or something for you, with lead."

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"Lead makes people stupider if you don't have a cleric on hand to cast Restoration about it."

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"Ooh, you have magic that fixes lead poisoning? Yeah, I wasn't going to have it loose in a form you might accidentally eat."

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"Mmm. Then - oh, as anti-scrying. Yeah, that's a good idea. You can line the shuttle and your skull with lead."

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"- done, thanks. You don't want a hat?"

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"I'm in the shuttle right now. I"ll think about it before we land."

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"'Kay. Do you want a comfier bed."

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Is that flirting.

"'m used to this."

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"Suit yourself. Can I caffeinate myself if I get tired?"

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"What does that entail."

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"Caffeine, it's in coffee and tea, I can apply it directly to my blood if you are concerned about the effects of letting me make mugs and mochas."

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"You can make a ceramic cup and make liquid up to the volume of the cup that is safe for humans to drink at the temperature you make it at."

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"Thanks." He makes coffee and goes on reading and sending letters to various apsels.

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Eventually she falls asleep.

 

Sleeps for two hours, wakes up and prestidigitates herself clean and presentable, prepares spells. 

 

"Okay, want to test your force damage immunity?"

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"On my wing, and if you will let me replace the wing if I wind up with an injury that doesn't heal normally-for-me."

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"If the wing is injured and you need to replace it you can replace it with an identical one."

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He sticks his right wing out.

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"Gonna try a very small force effect that wouldn't even kill a random civilian if they got medical care promptly. If that's fine I'll try a bigger one."

 

And she casts Magic Missile and sends only one dart at his wing.

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"Ow," says Cam. He has a slight discoloration on his wing that heals almost instantly. "Yeah, I seem to be immune to force damage, do you want me to go read your orders?"

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"Sure."

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"The atmosphere is pretty thin up here, normally I'd make some air to prevent that from inconveniencing you when I opened the door."

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In the worlds where he's hostile all these questions are a way of getting her to get in the habit of agreeing to things he says, and then not paying enough attention to catch it, when she hands him too much power. Which he says she'd already done, but he would say that, wouldn't he. She gave him items with immunity to mindreading and truth spells...

 

"You can make air identical to the air we have in Cheliax, if you want to do that."

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"Cool." He opens the door; there's a bit of a breeze, he closes it behind him and flaps away. He makes the orders when he's got a fair distance off from the shuttle.

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There's a bunch of them.

 

Teniente Sevar, 

You are absent without leave. Return to Egorian.

Almirante Jose Pedro de Luis

 

Teniente Sevar,

We share your conviction that the good fortune that brought this odd outsider to our doorstep must be divine in origin, and seek divine guidance on the further implications. We'll expect your presence in Egorian tomorrow to discuss them, and to make further plans. 

by the order of the High Priestess Aspexia Rugatonn, in Egorian

 

Teniente Sevar, 

There is potentially interest in authorizing an expedition to close the Worldwound. Return to discuss.

Benicio Thrune

 

Carissa Sevar,

It seems unwise for such an extraordinary venture to be attempted with such limited lines of communication or, relatedly, with so few friends. Drop off a mirror.

Paraduchess Lilia Ramona de Montero

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And none of them explode! He brings the packet of them back to the shuttle and lets himself in with another swirl of wind.

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She reads her mail. She looks - cheered, at first, and then steadily more miserable. 


"Thank you," she says belatedly after she's been staring at them for a minute.

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"I don't think I caught all the subtext in there."

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"I don't think they meant to send all these, probably some are drafts. Do you get ones even that were burned?"

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"Sure do. If you wanna make a killing among archaeologists I'm your apsel. Do you want me to check which ones exist right now?"

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"I - 

 

- okay, I think that what I want is to understand why you are helping me, specifically, because - it'd be really helpful to have someone to talk everything through with, but I am kind of confused about what exactly made working with me seem more promising than whatever other options you have here, or than threatening to kill me at the first opportunity and then making me let you do stuff, which I don't think would even hit you for Good since I'm Evil. And then once I understand that better I can explain all my mail. Assuming I'm reading it right, I'm new at this."

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"Oh, uh, I object to people being pushed around by abusive authoritarian theocracies in general even when they are themselves abusive authoritarian theocracy apologists, am not accustomed to evaluating possible actions based on whether they will make goodness-detecting spells approve of me less, urgently want to accomplish lots of things on this planet since I already ended material scarcity on the other one I know about and it's pretty well sorted, and need you in specific alive because you're my summoner."

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"Okay. I don't - really think Cheliax is abusive like a husband is and I'm not used to the word referring to countries. Authoritarian and theocracy I will give you, we are both of those things. I'm guessing that the three letters that address me as Teniente Sevar - that's my rank - are the output of the same process, one of them the most recent draft I was supposed to see, because most enlisted fourth-circle wizards are at least a captain and the instructor wouldn't have known so someone went and looked it up, and included it, for the purpose of saying that I'm not excommunicated yet.

They were clearly contemplating how much cooperativeness was a good idea to communicate to get me to return without my noncooperativeness necessarily communicating more than they want to communicate, right, like, I don't think it serves Asmodeus to excommunicate me unless He's very sure I'm going to stop being valuable at the first opportunity, and what is He doing if humans can't even be gotten to the point where they don't stop being valuable at the first opportunity, why have us around at all.

If I do return they're probably going to try to get a read on that, on whether I'm going to stop being valuable at the first opportunity that is, but the complicated thing about returning is that there are a bunch of ways to not be valuable? Like, one way of not being valuable is being an idiot, and maybe returning is idiotic enough that it itself demonstrates I am not qualified to do this. That's - the spirit in which the letters would have had explosive runes, if they had them, that if that works then there's no way at all Asmodeus chose me to do this. One option is to try to negotiate terms for my return, but I don't do this kind of thing, I don't know how to project the thing I want to project, which is that I work for Asmodeus, and for them insofar as they're not going to get in my way, because - because there's something Good about martyrdom, right, turning yourself in is something a paladin would do, it's the narrowness - I'm a human with my own interests and the means to defend them - probably what I want to do is reply saying that I'm already at the Worldwound and will turn myself in there, make them come to me if they want to deal with me...

- fourth letter is a person I've never heard of, who presumably got wind of this somehow and has her own agenda. I guess I should figure out more about that one? I don't have a mirror for her, though.... a mirror that is enchanted to match another, to use as a communications device. Is what she's asking for."

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"Well, I could remotely pilot something to drop one off if you wanna get a pair although I'm not sure you've given full consideration to flipping all these people off."

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"- there are some things that you don't do if you're a normal fourth-circle wizard, and you do if you're an extremely powerful high-level wizard, or the leader of a famous adventuring party. Like decide you're going to close the Worldwound. Or - force a regime change in Cheliax, conceivably, if you had a reason to think that was a good idea. And then there are things you don't do even if you're an extremely powerful high-level wizard or the leader of a famous adventuring party, like make Asmodeus angry, or tell the Chelish government you plan on being a problem. There are problems here we can solve, and if we instead go after the problems that we absolutely cannot solve, then we'll just die, and solve no problems."

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"If you went to Andoran and said, 'hey, I have come by this here apsel, can you shelter me from Chelish retaliation so I can stop fretting about that sort of thing while I close the Worldwound and incidentally make you the richest country on the planet', what do you imagine would happen?"

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"Someone would Wish-kidnap us to Hell and Petrify us or something. Cheliax would invade Andoran. Galt would too, to defend Andoran. Taldor would probably jump in, unclear on whose side. We'd redeploy off the Worldwound to come down through the River Kingdoms and make Galt fight on two fronts, and ally with the drow under Andoran who are pissed as fuck with them anyway because of the slave raids. In the meantime the Worldwound would expand because no one was manning the barriers."

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"I admittedly don't have the geopolitics knowhow to contradict that.

What if you said, 'hey, Andoran, I have come by ten thousand apsels'..."

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"- dunno.

 

But - I don't want Andoran to have ten thousand apsels."

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"Why not? Some of the apsels love babies and can't have any at home 'cause we're infertile, win-win with their orphanage situation."

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"It'd be - giving the future of the world over to people who hate me and everything I stand for. And maybe at that point Asmodeus just destroys it."

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"Destroys, what, the entire world?"

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"Yeah. Or - stops stopping Rovagug from destroying it."

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"Rovagug?"

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"Really stupid god who just wants to eat worlds. Ate a bunch of them before He got here. All the worthwhile gods teamed up to stop him. Good and Evil both agree on it being good that the world exists. But, you know, if either one of them ever changed their mind, He still exists, trapped in the center of the world."

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"Horrifying! Okay. You can't bring Andoran one apsel and you can't bring 'em ten thousand. Is there anyone sorta between the two that could be a fine compromise?"

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"I don't really...trust anyone. I feel like bringing people resources when you don't trust them is kind of complicated. Once they have the apsels, why not dispose of me?"

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"If you're the one to summon the apsels, they continue to need you alive."

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"I guess that's something. Petrified."

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"I don't know about around here but if an - uh - another kinda thing like me but with different powers - turned somebody into stone they would count as dead."

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"It doesn't count as death in the sense that your soul doesn't go to an afterlife."

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"But does it count as death in the sense that your apsels snap back home? We don't know! They won't test it while you're the only summoner they've got. I'm not saying I wouldn't spread the knowhow around if I found someone I trusted with it but I'd have to be fairly convinced they would not dispose of you to trust them with this information since disposing of people is not an especially trustworthy thing to do."

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"...I mean, it kind of is? If I didn't want Cheliax to have this power, and I had it myself, I would kill the Chelish wizard who had it. It'd be irresponsible not to!"

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"I'm not planning to give you the ability to do this alone, I'm planning to make you pre-print circles for you to fill in summoning known apsels I correspond with ahead of time."

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"That doesn't sound very in my interests but it does make sense given yours."

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"I mean, they won't need to worry about you skipping off and summoning additional apsels and you will accordingly be less threatening but equally valuable."

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"Why do you like this plan better than working with my people?"

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"Your people suck."

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"You think they're worse than all the people elsewhere, none of whom you have met, and most of which won't work with me unless I figure out how to Polymorph male full time?"

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"I actually specifically think that gender inequality will improve as people get richer! I mean, maybe not immediately, but since that seems to be something you're tracking. I have been doing research in your sleep, anyway, and many of the other countries seem like they might respond better to the carrots I have to dangle."

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"I'm not defecting. Cheliax wants to be - rich, and to defeat the enemies of peace in our world. And everyone wants the Worldwound closed. We'll work on that.

 

 

Can you look up the last letter's author for me?"

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"What do you want on her?"

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"A pamphlet explaining who she works for and what she's done and how she heard about me."

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"...sure, gimme a bit." He requests this of the apsels back home.

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"Does that take longer than diamonds?"

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"Yes it does." Wag.

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Well, if he's being mysterious on purpose because she said she's not defecting she's lucky if that's all she needs to deal with. 

 

"Okay. I think the next step is to go hide somewhere lead-lined and try to figure out mind-buttressing armor and better headbands so I can check if my current plan still seems smart when I'm smarter. And maybe to ransack the libraries of lost Azlant, it'll be good for my mood."

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"Sounds fun! The shuttle is already lead-lined, do you want to land or nah?"

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"Can it just stay up, uh, indefinitely?"

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"Yes." She said he could make anything standard with the ship and that includes periodic refueling.

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"Then I guess we can stay here." This feels - terrifyingly vulnerable? But probably that's just stupid. It's already the case that she can't make him land. And if they're not scryable and can't be teleported to then - this is as safe as they can get. Probably.

"It is kind of small? It'd be nice to have a workspace that I can set up properly, for magic armor research."

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"Sure, I can add a few rooms, it's a nice modular design intended for apsels who might want to spontaneously augment their craft."

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What does that expression mean??? "You can add a few rooms to the shuttle in the fashion that's usual for doing that."

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He adds some doors. One swings open of its own accord revealing a nice little suite for her.

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- possibly being alone right now would be good for her, actually, suddenly she feels very jumpy even though it seemed like he was sincere about needing to keep her alive. "Thank you."

She heads into her suite.

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"No problem!" he calls. The door shuts on its own behind her.

What has Hell got on the letter-writer?

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Chelish foreign intelligence service! She was awarded the title paraduchess for her work ten years ago routing out a network of internal traitors loyal to the Galtan revolutionaries; she's involved now in smoothing treaty negotiations in Thuvia (not that much has been committed to writing about this? probably sketchy?) and developing networks of loyalists in Galt, Taldor and Andoran. She has won a number of top secret awards. She's a wizard and any private notes seem to be done with magic.

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How inconvenient of her private notetaking behavior! They haven't gotten around it? What's the state of the art in magic notetaking? What are her top secret awards in.

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Service to the Chelish Crown! One for the roundup of spies, one a decade before that, there are a couple going theories on what for, possibly preventing an assassination of the King? And one more recent, a couple of years ago, for catching an attempted infiltration by a foreign church. 

Most magic-users just take notes on paper that they then change to conceal the words, which does not give demons trouble. Some use ink that's only visible to the user, but this can be handled with a substitution. Some lay illusions on blank paper and have eidetic memories, which is not as solvable. 

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How irritating of them. He writes up what they do have into a pamphlet and slips it through the letter slot on Carissa's door.

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Carissa has absorbed herself in making her headband, but when she next looks up she reads it.

 

That seems...promising? A competent person, who wants to talk. Who'll presumably kill her if she turns out to be bad at this, but who can help her, if she's worth it.

She goes back to work on the headband.

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Cam reads newspapers, and Abadaran church publications, and highlights from the home team's assessment of the place. Asks them for suggestions on what notes he should airdrop into what cities; he can see much of the Inner Sea region from here, but could also fly around the world, it's just he doesn't speak those langauges. Though he'll install their translation software as soon as they have the kinks worked out from the written corpuses on all the languages of Golarion et al. If Carissa lets him.

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Most of these countries suck in various ways, it's technologically the late 1700s or early 1800s and the magic isn't simplifying matters. Some people are enthusiastic about Galt as the best prospects of overthrowing Cheliax. Some people are enthusiastic about Andoran, leading the fight against the slave trade, or Lastwall, leading the fight against Evil in full generality, or Goka in Tian Xia, bigger and richer even than Absalom. Cases are also sent in for Osirion, the economics theocracy, Nex, waiting for the return of its destined ruler and therefore maybe open to a different one, or Numeria, where someone thinks that with enough time he could hack all the androids and overthrow the government. (They deserve it, he adds.)

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What does Numeria deserve a robot uprising for?

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A while ago a spaceship crashed there. It routinely builds androids of varying degrees of sapience; its other systems seem broken. The androids do random things. The ship and country are controlled by a powerful cabal of wizards who have mind-controlled/bribed/seduced the ruler into ignoring the country's affairs while they try to repair the ship. The ruler has extravagant tastes. So do the wizards. Everyone is starving.

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Gosh, okay. How would he go about hacking the robots. Would the more sapient ones object to this.

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He can probably only hack the not-sapient ones as those are the ones he's copied to his own house and is currently fucking with! Here's what he's figured out so far.

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Well, there were bound to be some drawbacks to recklessly publishing the existence of Golarion but at least they can't get the sapients direct and he really needs the information processing to fix up the world, or at least it looked like he might need it at the time. He writes to Wistful Parents of Hell asking them to keep an eye on whether any sapients can be gotten as eggs and arrange some kind of children's rights oversight if so. He reads up on the robot hacking. He's running out of paper. "You awake?"

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She's working on her headband! "I should have a sign so you know how interruptible I am. What do you need?"

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"More paper allotment! Or permission to make formats that go on this." He waves the computer. "Which I'd rather, really, makes them searchable and stuff."

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She looks suspiciously at the computer. "What're you researching?"

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"Right now? Feasibility of engineering a robot-uprising-backed coup of Numeria."

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"....we're not strong enough, we don't know enough about the landscape - maybe in ten years once the Worldwound's closed and people are sort of accustomed to dealing with us - that's not really how Chaotic people operate, is it -"

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"I'm not operating out of some sort of Chaotic Good playbook, here, is there something you'd like me to be researching instead?"

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"I mean if you're just having fun then by all means have whatever fun you want, I just don't - want you to come up with something that sounds like a good idea the way giving Andoran ten thousand apsels sounds like a good idea, and then do it, we'll get killed. We'll, uh, get to do more good in the long run if we're more careful." She says this like she has absolutely no idea if it is the sort of thing that'd be a convincing argument to him.

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"So, right now I am very constrained in what I can do, because I have to clear most things with you, and that means that I am more interested in opportunities to do things that do not have affordances for you to sabotage them, such as putting information or leverage in the hands of people who seem like they might be reasonably placed to make use of them and do not have the same limitations as me. If I had been summoned unbound we would probably be in a fairly comparable position right now because I'd still need you alive and you would still have a lot of value as a native guide and item enchanter, but I would not find slipping stuff through your loopholes nearly so appealing, because I would have a better alternative to negotiated agreement with you, namely assume you like being alive and fuck off on my own, so I could talk things through with you more thoroughly."

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"I feel like you are really - overestimating how hard it'd be to kill us if someone powerful was genuinely invested in doing it. The main constraints here are not me, the main constraints here are seeming worth expending a lot of resources to destroy."

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"And this is the sort of advice I value! But can only value it so much when it's - in the context of coming with a leash on me, right, not a very good leash but one that I can't trivially shake without trashing all the opportunities here. If you had a tighter hold on me I would spin my wheels a bit looking for ways out and eventually determine there weren't any good ones and figure fixing the Worldwound is probably better than not that and I'd be pretty manageable apart from my charming sense of humor, but you can't get there from here. And if you had a much looser hold on me, so I could view you as a source of advice and not - a person who is trying to wield me - then I could take more of your advice at face value. I could check up on things you say without having to ask for more paper, I could, I don't know, abduct a starving Numerian and treat them for marasmus and talk to them and let them go pending a discussion on how dangerous that would be, I could suggest tricking some random people into summoning more apsels who just want to adopt babies and live on farms but would at least leave a lifeline between your cosmology and mine if you should have a tragic encounter with assassination. Oh, uh, fun fact, in my magic system if you've ever summoned one of us you get to be one when you die."

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"Can't get there from here because I'm not smart enough? Because I am working on fixing that. Though I guess if I am also going to be bribing you with headbands I won't have much of an actual advantage for very long."

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"I mean mechanically, although I guess I don't know if you have fancy summon-control spells or how well they'll work on me."

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"If I were - someone with a lot more resources who was trying to have more of a handle on you from this starting point - I'd probably try to keep you on an antimagic demiplane with, like, an adjacent demiplane where time moves very slowly but your magic works fine. I am not that someone, I have kind of few resources, and also I'm seriously entertaining the hypothesis that it was, actually, supposed to be me, which would mean that something about me makes me the right person to try to do this, and also personally I would hate being stuck on an antimagic demiplane and I'd much rather -" Shrug. "That sounds like the kind of sentence I'll think is stupid when I'm smarter. The Worldwound is - big, okay? I was trying to pick something big, something that wouldn't feel like it was just - 'probably better than not that' - we are losing ground against the fifty-mile-wide portal to the Abyss through which demons that want to devour the world stream, our world's richest countries are diverting most of their strength to slowing down the rate at which the demons gain ground, it is the most important problem that it is safe to solve. Probably. We might attract the specific personal enmity of a demon lord but we might not, and maybe if we did we'd have allies in Hell -

- if you'd rather do something else I'm listening. I realize that it will be terrible for my lifespan if you resent me. But I - really do not think I'm the constraint on your ability to have fun, here, I really honestly think - you can check, if you have some way - that if you go around trying to have fun here then someone will just turn you into a toad or trap you in stasis in a gemstone or possess you or leave you on the Elemental Plane of Fire with no way back or, I don't know, stick a helmet of Opposite Alignment on you so you can be more of an asset to Cheliax, that might be what Asmodeus would do. Which I guess I should be rooting for, except - obviously I'm not the tool by which he'd do that -" She trails off, a little lost. "....I don't know if this is exactly answering your worries but -

- maybe I just need to try to answer more questions. I don't know."

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"If you put me in an antimagic location and it recognized me as magical at all instead of figuring I'm an exotic law of physics, it might just annihilate me on the spot, I don't run on biology any more. FYI."

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" - well. I can kill myself if you get captured? Because they're definitely going to try that - I guess you can warn them not to - I'd be more thrilled about this plan if we'd set up some backups for me first."

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"Backups like?"

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"Well, that's why the first thing I did was give my teacher a diamond, right, if he heard I died he might resurrect me to ask where I stashed all the spellsilver and magic items. But - more people. More credible people. In some places you can buy a contract for it from the Church of Abadar, I think, I've heard people at the Worldwound mention it. Maybe my mom, if she had the diamond on hand I think there's half a chance she'd do it just out of nostalgia. There's also a spell called Clone, seventh-circle, makes an inert flesh duplicate of you that wakes if you die. And Contingency, at sixth."

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"Those sound fine. I don't suppose the hard part of Clone is creating an inert flesh duplicate of you, because I could do that part."

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"I mean, that will probably save some labor but the seventh-circle spell is to tell my soul to go there instead of to Hell. - it's allowed, Asmodeus isn't in a hurry. If you're doing it specifically to evade Hell that's problematic but if you've just got stuff to do here, it isn't any different than wearing armor."

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"I'm only instrumentally interested in not antagonizing your hellgod."

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"I don't know exactly what distinction you're drawing there but Asmodeus's legitimacy comes from the fact He owns and can destroy us, yes."

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"That's not really how I use the word 'legitimacy'. Or, uh, 'owns'. Jury's out on 'can destroy' - for me, not for you."

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"Asmodeus's grounds for telling us what to do, if you like that better."

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"You haven't gotten any direct instructions from him, just from his theocracy. I don't actually know how much of a direct line they've got."

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"He picks the priests and high-level ones can commune with Him for answers to important questions. Mostly we're just not all that worth trying to communicate with but He approved His holy book, the Disciplines, and He sends specific devils as advisors to important people in government. I think Cheliax is run close enough to the way He wants it run, with divergences for anything we either can't correct or which isn't worth His time to correct."

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"Uh-huh. Shall we stop off at a church of Abadar, buy you some insurance?"

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"I want to finish the headband first but if it still seems like a good idea after that, yeah."

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"All right. Do you have research suggestions?"

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"Whether there's something like lead you can do for spell resistance so we can't get Wish-kidnapped. Whether there's anything really good in the lost lore of ancient Azlant. If anyone has taken notes on how to make mind-buttressing armor. Notes that definitely do exist on more advanced headbands, I could figure that out but it'd take me a while....what happened to Aroden."

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"On it!" he chirps, writing all this down in his open letter to his research team of several million demons who think Golarion is very exciting. "This will, again, be easier if I can conjure computer formats instead of solely littering paper everywhere."

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"Can you explain computers to me."

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"...it would take a long time if you want a version of the explanation that isn't simplified lies."

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"Long enough I should finish my headband first?"

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"You're not gonna let me conjure computer formats till I explain it to your satisfaction, are you."

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"It would be pretty stupid to let you do things I don't understand at all."

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He sighs. He takes off his headband and offers it to her. "So I can go a little faster."

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" - thanks."

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"A computer is a device that uses small controlled amounts of electricity to manipulate the state of very very small components that represent information. Some of that information is instructions the device can follow in manipulating its information. For example," he says, pulling up a random article about apricot cultivars, "I can highlight all the instances of this letter," he highlights all the A's, "or all the instances of this word," the apricots, "and so on. In a very large document, this is useful because, for example, I could skip to every mention of 'Aroden' - and, for that matter, sophisticated computer software can also use a corpus of written material to do halfway decent translation, so with a little work I could also cover more ground by searching material not written in Taldane. Which, by the way, only Chelish people call 'Avistani'."

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"Taldor is a husk of an empire and doesn't deserve the language the whole continent speaks being named after them." She frowns, concentrating. "I don't understand what about representing information in small components lets you find all the instances of the word "Aroden" any faster."

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"...the modern versions are very complicated, will you settle for a description of a primitive edition of search?"

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"The thing I am trying to understand is what else being allowed to put information on that device and reorder it in arbitrary ways lets you do because it seems like it might be a lot of things. I won't even know if you're lying but - true technical explanations hold together better than fake ones."

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"Information stored on the computer can also do pictures, sounds, moving pictures accompanied by sounds, I can demonstrate all those but they're less important because you don't have photography or sound recording that isn't too magic to conjure anyway. I already have a lot on here. What not adding new stuff is preventing me from doing is mostly the translation thing and research on Golarion enabled by both that and by search. Paper is slower and less freely organizable and limited to Taldane and cluttery."

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"Can you show me some of what you have on there?"

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"Sure." He puts Atriama on a shuttle screen and the overture pipes through the shuttle speakers.

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She watches it and thinks. 

 

"I can give you Comprehend Languages if you want to read in other languages."

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"Unless you can cast it on my computer that's not much help."

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"If I can figure out a way to do it at all it should let you read things on your computer even if you don't understand the language they're written in. And the computer - doesn't understand either way, right - or is it intelligent -"

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"It's not. We can't make anything smarter than a snail for some reason. I will not be able to navigate among files in a language that the computer doesn't - have, in some sense - here, I'll add the Taldane alphabet and you can see how that works." He pulls up an alphabet-adding app and starts mentally drawing Taldane characters in it. "Now these are all being assigned codepoints so that they have unique renderings in the format the computer uses - it has to store everything in the same way at the very bottom of its structure even though I know and use dozens of languages - and now I can, say, name this picture of you," he snaps one, "your name in Taldane, and if I go to my search, here, I can type your name," he does, "and then your picture comes up, see? But if you just cast a spell on me that means I can read any language, this is impossible - I can't type in them, and the computer wouldn't understand if I did."

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She spends a while thinking about it. "I think I am not smart enough to understand all of the implications of computers yet. That makes sense but I wouldn't have thought of it and I am trying to think of all the other things in that category and there's just - lots of them. Maybe once I understand it more. I'm not trying to hide anything about the world from you and if there are specific things you'd want to look at for proof you can, I just shouldn't be building stuff I don't understand at all."

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"If I walk you through how computer translation works will you let me make specifically and only the things I explain to you that I need to do that?"

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"...probably."

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He pulls up the machine translation code for Chinese so it'll be visually obvious what's in one language and what's in the other even to Carissa. "I don't have a seed corpus here, because those are actually pretty big even in computer format and wouldn't fit in the shuttle on paper even if I wrote so small you needed a magnifying glass. But this program was derived from a very large amount of text in Chinese, the one where the characters look like this -" Some light up. "And then the computer figured out what characters often go together, in what orders, at what frequency, and also was fed a dictionary but you can do it without that if you have to, and it was like, 'here are all the most obvious word to word or phrase to phrase correspondences between this sentence in Chinese and a possible sentence in English, here is what would make sense with both how English works and what's present in the Chinese sentence, here is a guess at an English translation', and then someone who actually spoke Chinese helped weed out the weird mistakes it made at first, but for that your Comprehend Languages spell might actually work fine and it's optional for the kind of skimming I plan to do anyway.

"It does make very silly mistakes though, like this sentence," he flips into a text editor and plops some Chinese in there, "means 'tea time, Nyonya dumpling, do you like it' but, because of the word Nyonya containing a character that can mean 'mother', and a movie reference in English being frequently snowcloned into various sentences of the form 'X, motherfucker, do you Y it' such that it appeared disproportionately, the program guessed it meant 'teatime, motherfucker, do you like it' and a real person was needed to correct it. But it's still a very, very powerful first pass at natural language translation.

"As a toy example of what the program does - or, some of it, there's also lots of epicycles on top to account for things linguists figure out about this or that, but at the most basic - here are some real Chinese sentences, and here after those are some that might or might not be legitimate grammatical Chinese, can you guess based on just the examples which one is real?"

And he writes:

我爱猫
猫爱鱼
我不爱鱼
猫不爱我

不猫我爱 , 我不不不 , 爱我猫鱼 , 鱼不爱我

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"Oh, I'm no good at languages," she says almost before looking at it. 

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"There are literally five different characters, would you like me to replace them with squares of different colors so it just looks like a puzzle?"

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"I'm fine at puzzles, sure."

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He replaces the characters with five different colors.

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Red, green, blue.

Blue, green, purple.

Red, yellow, green, purple.

Blue, yellow, green, red.

 

She doesn't get it instantly.

 

He's going to think she's very stupid, and then she's going to die, and -

 

Okay, calm down. She is, objectively, too stupid to do this perfectly. She is not so stupid she's already dead. She's going to have to do her best with the amount of intelligence that she has, knowing it isn't enough, and hoping that she can patch the difference with arbitrary material resources. 

It's not really a puzzle, even though he's colored it. You have to add a bunch of assumptions to get anywhere, and - and since it's a language they should be language sorts of assumptions, like that in most sentences the nouns and the verbs and the connecting words only have a certain number of orders they can be placed in, instead of if it were a math puzzle where the key thing might be what each line added up to, or if they were spell symbols where the important thing would be the resonance -

All four 'sentences' have green in them. It'd be very stupid to assert that a rule of Chinese is that sentences have green in them, but - but it might be a common word, 'a' or 'the' - in which case its placement in the proposed sentence 1 and 3 looks suspicious, it's not in the middle of the word like in all the examples -

Blue and red are beginning-words, purple and blue and red are all acceptable ending words. Yellow precedes green.

 

Blue, yellow, green, red is a valid string. Blue, yellow, green, purple is a proposed string. It looks like...clearly the best of the proposed strings, when she's thinking about it like this? But is it at all sane to be thinking about it like this, is she just following one of a hundred possible threads of thought which point different directions -

 

- but she doesn't think she is. Red green blue. Red greens blue; some relationship exists between red and blue. Blue greens purple. Red does not green purple. Blue does not green red. Now she's picked meanings for half the words and maybe that's very stupid. 

"Blue yellow green purple has the most similarity in character-order in the sentence," she says, and only flinches a little bit.

 

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"Yes!" he says, wagging his tail, "congratulations, this isn't actually a standard exercise, I made it up and was worried it was too hard -" The squares are replaced with little pictures of cats and fish and a smiley face and a heart and an X. "So, the computer does a lot of that, to determine the purely structural features of a language and what sorts of things go where. It has some guesses suggested by the programmers about how common certain concepts are, about some typical features of adjectives and so on, and also the fancy version can try to parse illustrations to compensate for missing dictionary vocabulary -" He brings up the apricot article again; it does have some pictures. "Allowing it to guess that words appearing more frequently in this article are particularly likely to be 'apricot' and words that are related to apricot in its sample of other languages. So when it's presented with a new sentence in a language it has processed, it can check it against all its other knowledge, and then find a surprisal-minimizing solution for the translation. It will work especially well if you or I help it with Taldane and there are any translations of the same text into multiple Golarion languages already available for it to use."

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"Lots of holy books get translated into every language. What is it - doing, when it's guessing, if it has a snail's intelligence, snails aren't very good at guessing patterns..."

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"It doesn't have a snail's intelligence at all. It's executing a program, people and animals don't have those. Here is a simple program -"

>print "Hello, world!"
>increment #count
>print " [[count]]"
>loop to start until #count = 6
Hello, world! 1
Hello, world! 2
Hello, world! 3
Hello, world! 4
Hello, world! 5
Hello, world! 6

"Obviously this is not very useful by itself, it's the kind of thing you learn when you're picking up a new encoding standard," he avoids the phrase 'programming language' advisedly, "but it should illustrate the concept if you can comprehend-languages it?"

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"I - how do you give instructions to something that isn't intelligent?"

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"I - type them? There's more code underneath that tells it in even simpler terms what 'print' and quotation marks and 'increment' and the brackets and loop and start and equals means, and then it follows those rules very mechanistically. It doesn't take cognition. - I can make crabs that are as smart as crabs and there is a kind of crab with swarming behavior you can use to do logic gates, actually, do I have a video -" He rummages through files. "- yes! Ha! Okay, here is a video of soldier crabs doing logic gates, do you have your comprehend languages up so you can understand the narration?"

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She looks very suspicious of the crabs. " - yes."

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"Soldier crabs have consistent simple behavioral patterns and if you put them in weird environments -" He runs the video. The soldier crabs demonstrate logic gates; first one at a time, then in sequence; finally there is an entire calculator built with soldier crabs. The demon who made the calculator is interviewed by the videographer demon; the former is feeding a crab some bit of unidentifiable crab food while it pinches her shirt.

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These people have weird hobbies.

 

But she can see how you can use crabs to do math.

She is not going to ask if there are crabs in his computer. They'd have to be such small crabs. 

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Fortunately he clarifies. "Electricity, like crabs, behaves in predictable ways in response to its environment and there are tiny logic-gate-type things in computers meant to exploit that. So there's logic gates and there's calculators and there's all kinds of other stuff built up on top of that."

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"Huh. Okay. And you can get intelligent-looking behavior, that way, without any actual mind- like a really good construct -can the computer do anything other than manipulate the information on it?"

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"It can take pictures, like I showed you - the computer itself doesn't do audio but the shuttle has speakers and that can, if I want music - but that's basically all just more ways of manipulating the stored information, just like how it displays information on the projector or the screens."

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"All right." Sigh. "Is there specific stuff you wanted to make or did you just want to make - a general report on the planet, or something -"

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"Some of my correspondence is going to be things like video letters, do you want to see one from a while ago from my mom to prove that that's a thing people do? Plus the translation issue, I want to make corpuses and have the computer chew 'em up into halfway acceptable machine translation for search of those same corpuses."

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"Corpus" doesn't quite translate. "You want to make - everything everyone's written? It'll fit in that computer?"

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"At least in the shuttle computer if not my mini, yeah, you don't have enough literacy or mass production to have too much output for it, and text doesn't take up a lot of memory and that's all you'll have, but I suppose it's possible that the civilization's old enough or something that I will need more storage than I expect and I'd like to be able to make that too, plus enough metaphorical crabs to do language processing itself takes up a lot of room."

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"I don't know how old civilization on this planet is. Azlant was destroyed 8,000 years ago and they were more advanced than us, so, older than that. Our civilization is almost two thousand years old. Are we talking about a room of storage or a ship of storage or a continent of storage?"

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"I can definitely fit it on the ship unless Azlant had computers or video cameras or billions of literate people and the printing press."

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"I wouldn't know, really."

 

 


She thinks for a while. "I'm trying to think how to let you do that without - being so broad you can do lots of other stuff - is there. A standard wording or something -"

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"Hm, let me see - some places have apsels doing forensics but that's probably not what you want because they do models as well as computer records -" He's flipping through stuff. "Some places use 'em for mail between planets but that's usually very specific... okay, here's the circle the University of Imbrium uses for its history department apsel, looks like they have a long term thing and their apsel is allowed to get letters for herself as well as pursue lines of historical inquiry on her own but they only let her do media and not models because the department specializes in reception, historiography, the history of mathematics, and the history of Romance languages, rather than anything you want architecture or clothes or whatever for. Do you want to comprehend languages it, the part you want is this bit," some lights up, "or I can try to render it in Taldane?"

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- this is surprisingly helpful. She'd be suspicious but it'd be hard to make up on the fly. "I have Comprehend Languages up." She leans in to read it.

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It says that the history department apsel is permitted to, in areas presently containing only vacuum or air on premises belonging to the University, not inside a cavity of any organism, not in such a way as to circumvent any safety or compliance wording elsewhere in this binding, create media including text, images, text stored as images due to inadequate alphabet encoding, video, audio, digital files associated with any software, and the supported formatting requirements for the accurate display of all such media, on hardware of a size not excessive in capacity by more than 50% to contain the desired material, or in the original physical form as authorized by a faculty member, no more than 500 times an hour.

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....she reads this and learns several new things about apsels.

 

Well. She knew that a lot of this was already running on 'it's not in his interests for her to be dead'. And on the fact that being Good, he's probably not allowed to wantonly murder other people either. Though she didn't ask what happened to the Absalom police pursuing her. 

"Okay. Uh, you're permitted to make, in areas on this spaceship presently containing only air, not inside a cavity of any organism, media including text, images, text stored as images due to inadequate alphabet encoding, video, audio, digital files associated with any software, and the supported formatting requirements for the accurate display of all such media, on hardware of a size not excessive in capacity by more than 50% to contain the desired material, or in the original physical form as authorized by me, no more than ...fifty times an hour."

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"Brilliant, we're in business, thanks." There is a nook over there; he puts a computer tower in it that's taller than he is, wagging all the while.

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- that could easily be a pretense but she smiles back anyway. "Good luck."

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"Mm-hm! Can I get you anything before I dive right back in? Food, say."

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"Oh, I've got a Ring of Sustenance, I don't need to eat. Thanks, though. You can make yourself food if you'd like."

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"Oh, convenient. I don't actually have to eat either, but I do get a little hungry before I stop getting hungrier." He makes himself a blue sno-cone. "I will be less limited in what I can have if I'm allowed to make dishes that aren't specifically that one mug from earlier or made of my dwindling paper supply."

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"You can also, not inside of any organisms and somewhere on this ship that is currently occupied only by air, make a ceramic plate and some utensils if you'd like."

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"Thanks." He doesn't do this immediately, since he has his sno-cone.

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"I'm gonna go back to the headband, if that's everything. If you find anything about mind-buttressing armor you can set it aside for me."

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"Will do!"

And when she's gone: okay, obviously Hell has been working on translating all the Golarion languages already, but now he can read up on it more thoroughly -

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She wants to delay doing things, delay giving the apsel things, delay the apsel getting ideas, but that just increases the chances someone'll think of something to do about her, or get a Wish out of a genie.

Probably this is fine.

 

She works on her headband.

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When Carissa next takes a break Cam has a presentation ready to go on everything he found on mind-buttressing armor!

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- if she doesn't die she's going to get to learn so much magic. "If you make me, on this ship in somewhere occupied only by air not inside an organism, another hundred vials of spellsilver identical to the one I showed you earlier I'll do my best to make you that armor and give it to you once I succeed."

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"I'm a little concerned that if I try to wear something quite that heavy I, for one, won't be able to fly, and for another, will fall over if I try to walk. I was hoping all this would present to a relevantly specialized observer a way to get it on a more streamlined model."

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" - hmmm. 'too heavy to fly' we can solve, mithral's lighter, I can probably get it down to ten, twelve pounds. I'll have to try it to figure out why exactly the enchantment won't lay on less metal than that, I might be able to figure it out but it looks like it's just complicated and needs lots of metal to be stable..."

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"Ten to twelve pounds I can fly with no problem presuming it doesn't directly foul the wings, sure. Mithril is not magic?"

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"It doesn't show up to Detect Magic."

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"Well, maybe I can make it, then. We don't have it where I'm from." He puts "mithril" in a notes file.

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She's going to get to work in so many rare cool metals! She tries not to look too overeager about this. "I'll want to do a standard one first for practice, probably, but then I can do it in mithril for you. Do you have a spell failure chance from wearing armor?"

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"No, I'm not casting spells."

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"Lucky you. I'll keep you updated."

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"Thanks!" Wag wag.

- okay, denizens of Hell, can they make mithril? Can they make other cool Golarion metals?

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They can! They are all over this! Some of them kind of suck as metals in oxygen, and benefit immensely from the fact that in Golarion they're usually used for magic armor and magic items don't rust. There is a lot of demand in Hell for magic stuff, at this point.

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Has anyone got anywhere on casting spells or making magic items?

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Not yet! Locals seem to think casting spells takes months to learn, so that might not mean anything. Making magic items seems to just not work, tragically.

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Tragic! Maybe they'll be able to in a few months. Okay, does anyone have any geopolitics-type advice or intel for him?

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Lots of it! Some people have tried to filter other peoples' advice for being good but it's hard to know what's good advice, in a situation like this. There are long lists by country of people of interest and what they're up to. There's a list of everyone who has written anything about Cam (all in Cheliax so far, and quite short). There's a list of churches that seem....not incredibly terrible...and probably trustworthy with the knowledge of how to summon apsels.

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What is Cheliax writing about Cam? And then he wants to see the church assessments, that seems like it might matter if the gods, like, exist.

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There's lots of reason to believe the gods exist though inconveniently they don't have a lot of nonmagical writing or other conjurables. Some of them were formerly human and those ones' records are being enthusiastically combed through though also, it seems that ascending to godhood changes people. 

Promising churches: Shelyn (Neutral Good, goddess of art and music and love) Qi Zhong (Neutral Good god of magic and medicine), Kofusachi (Chaotic Good god of prosperity), Iomedae (Lawful Good, ascended human, fairly militant, fighting the Worldwound and Cheliax and Ustalav and the Hold of Belkzen, which all seem differently terrifying), Sarenrae (Neutral Good, credited with the alliance that imprisoned Rovagug, lots of nice legible priorities like ending child marriage and running hospitals and orphanages),Calistria (goddess of revenge and personal freedom, her churches offer abortions and domestic violence shelters), Gruhastha (Lawful Good god of enlightenment).

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Well, Kofusachi sounds most relevant to Cam's longer-term interests but Iomedae might be relevant to the whole Worldwound deal. - also Sarenrae might be relevant if he's shaking things up enough that Rovagug becomes a going concern. Does he just, like, pray to them, somehow, or should he drop letters on churches?

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Probably drop letters on churches? It is really unclear if prayer ever works but it doesn't seem to work often.

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Cam will look up some children's book about how to pray in case it's a really cheap and easy test, just in case, but he also helps himself to what the apsel cartographers are up to.

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You pray by making your space clear of distractions and optionally filling it with things appreciated by the god you're praying to and then thinking of them and the skills and priorities they embody and seeking their guidance and strength.

 

The apsel cartographers haven't yet finished building the to-scale model of Golarion but the tenth-scale one is done and there's satellite imagery of it.

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Oh good. He will try to join that up with some political maps produced locally and what he can see by flying the ship this way and that and looking around, to place the cities for future possible mail drops; while the ship is engaged on a course to Lastwall, since Iomedae is one of the gods who conveniently has a stake in geopolitics, he retreats into his own shuttle room which doesn't have much stuff in it. She is apparently into... swords? He can't make an actual sword but he has utensils permission so he can make a sword-ish kind of knife. He sets the sword down on the floor, sits before it, and attempts to contemplate Iomedae and her priority of dealing with the Worldwound since that's what his summoner will be most cooperative with. Prayer prayer prayer. - probably you are not supposed to just think "prayer prayer prayer". Iomedae Iomedae Iomedae? Is that better? Hey Iomedae what say we close the Worldwound?

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His prayer is not answered.

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Okay! Either he's doing this wrong or she's not picking up the phone and one of them is a lot quicker to test than the other. Kofusachi! Hey Kofusachi! ABSOLUTE HEAPS of prosperity on offer!

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There's a long pause.

 

Then there's - 

 

- a sensation like he's been dumped into a black hole, or into the middle of a hurricane, a blinding flood of not-exactly-sensory not-exactly-knowledge that should be destroying him and somehow isn't, a sense of paths marching forward through a wilderness to gleaming cities, mud flats turning into markets, a dozen enormous hands moving over the paths, tugging logs out of their way, lighting trees afire, deftly avoiding each other but clearly not all working towards the same ends -

- and a sense of recognition, familiarity, there-is-a-thing-we-both-are, though the gulf between them is clearly enormous -

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WOW he was not expecting prayer to be this trippy. Uh. Hello? ...downtown Dite in the middle of a block party, covered in gold and streamers and lights and diamonds? Luna spangled with cities, people strapping on wings to soar in the low gravity? An island appearing out of nowhere, skyscrapers already on it, in the middle of the Pacific?

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Yes. The thing that buoys and enables all other things.

 

It is not easy for gods to speak to mortals. It is not very safe for the mortals. And it involves seeing them, very clearly, clearly enough to know that Cam prefers not to be so closely seen. Is there advice needed badly enough to warrant it?

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Oh dear. Uh, Cam is not a mortal but he appreciates the consideration. The important stuff to cover is probably - where should he be dropping letters, who should he be talking to - and can the gods see and/or get in touch with other apsels back home.

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A churning, spinning sort of sensation, significant effort expended in arriving at an answer and then extraordinary effort going into making the answer legible -

He should drop letters in Lastwall and in Osirion. They'll proceed with the caution needed not to overturn the [infuriating/dissatisfying/mathematically and logically inappropriate/tempting to just smite] balance of powers in the Inner Sea, they'll be more compelling to his summoner, the downsides look smaller and the upside will take longer but isn't less. The gods, save maybe Nethys, cannot intervene directly in, or see directly, Cam's Hell; its ~characteristics are wrong; they can inspire their followers to write things, at varying [fidelity/probability the thing will be written/cost/harm to the follower] (all of those being different tradeoffs on the same frontier)...

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- okay. Lastwall and Osirion. Thanks, Kofusachi, send a letter through a cleric if anything comes up, you're a pal, popup island cities coming soon to an ocean near you.

.......fucking OW his head hurts. He is allowed, fortunately, to make human-safe beverages, so his next cup of coffee is full of opiates in a human dose. And so is the next one and the next one because they don't have to be human compatible jointly, just individually.

Cam goes back out to the shuttle bridge. Locates the capitals of Lastwall and Osirion and considers what to put in a letter. Writes up the incident for the Hell spectators, in case they have ideas.

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No attempts at prayer in Hell have had success and a lot of demons more religiously inclined than Cam are incredibly jealous. The headaches are a common feature of stories about human contact with the gods; so is memory loss, seizures, brain damage, and occasionally permanent insanity. Some people are grabbing brain-tissue from various occasions of purported conversation with gods to see if they can figure out what happens.

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He's curious to hear what they find! Opiates work, fortunately, the headache was worth it for the tip.

Draft letter for Vigil and Sothis...

To whom it may concern:

I am limited in my communication options at this time and hope this makes its way to the right people, whoever they may be. I am an unprecedented variety of outsider called an apsel with the ability to make persistent arbitrary material objects at a nearly unlimited rate, including those inspired by a technological level much higher than that achieved on Golarion, including spellsilver and diamonds. I have been summoned and am somewhat constrained by a Chelish wizard who is mostly willing to cooperate with me towards shared ends such as addressing the Worldwound but I hope to orient myself to the situation enough to accomplish more than that. I can receive any correspondence marked 'letter to Cam' advising me further on things I should read, places I should go, lines of argument I should try on my summoner, &c. On the advice of Kofusachi, who I successfully reached briefly via prayer, I have sent copies of this letter to you in [Vigil/Sothis] and also to [Sothis/Vigil]. I await replies from whoever fields this sort of thing there.

Sincerely, Cam

- he doesn't love it but he wants to get the ball rolling. Does Hell have any margin notes for him?

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Tens of thousands of them! A few curators are sticking out as particularly useful with research questions by now. They can also figure out specific names if he'd rather send to specific people.

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He doesn't think he can aim that well from orbit and doesn't want to land yet but it might help to suggest in the letter specific people, sure. He makes some tweaks.

He is not sure exactly how many sheets of paper he has left. He starts with Lastwall, finds a trafficked square he can kind of see with enough abuse of his shuttle telescopes, drops exactly one copy of the letter, wrapped and paper-stitched around a potato so it will fall and not blow away. Then he does the same in Sothis, and then he alternates cities, choosing different streets to drop potato-letters in each time, checking between each pair for replies, until he gets one or runs out of paper.

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He gets a reply from Lastwall after about half an hour. 

 

Thank you for writing to us. We'll have some people write information on what you requested, addressed to you, and pray for further guidance. Lastwall has significant forces deployed at the Worldwound and they'd be happy to talk to you more about what could be productively done to improve life and combat Evil on Golarion. We advise strong caution in working with Cheliax; Asmodeus is the enemy of free peoples on Golarion and everywhere, and even apparently-innocuous actions could cause great harm to the extent they empower Cheliax to spread his ideology. We'll say more later.

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Oh good, contact established. He stops dropping letters - if he's lucky Lastwall will tell Sothis to look for potato-letters and hopefully he has some paper left for emergencies. Keeps conjuring for replies now and then when doing background reading.

When Carissa next emerges from her room he is reading the Asmodean holy texts. "Hey, I want to make my violin," he tells her.

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"That's a musical instrument? What's it made of?"

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"Mostly wood, decorative gold leaf, metal strings of some kind but I'd have to look it up if you want the exact composition, couple other metal bits, it's played with a bow which is wood and horsehair. It will serve to somewhat undepress me from my cultural background reading." He indicates the Asmodean Monograph on his screen.

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"Yeah, I don't think people tend to be Asmodean because it makes them giddy, just because it's true. I do want to know what kinds of metal because some kinds of metal are poison so I don't want to give you general permission to make metal things."

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"I can already kill you! I don't think my violin is poisonous. - okay, the strings are steel, the other metal bits are apparently aluminum."

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"I know you can kill me! But I don't want you killing the Queen of Cheliax or something either, and you have more reasons to do that. You can make a musical instrument in air on the ship in its conventional form using steel and aluminum and wood and horsehair and gold leaf."

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"I could kill her too!" says Cam, producing a violin. "It would be somewhat more inconvenient because she doesn't happen to be right here and also probably someone would bring her back pronto but the no-making-things-inside-organisms clause is not decorative and I have several permissions you issued without it."

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She's a ninth circle sorcerer, Carissa starts to object before realizing that it is probably good if Cam thinks it's easier to assassinate the queen of Cheliax than it actually is. "She's a perfectly good queen," she says instead. "Probably they'd bring her back and even if they didn't I don't think you'd like the replacement any better."

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"I'm not planning to go assassinate the Queen of Cheliax," he snorts. "It's just a little peculiar for you to be paranoid at this late hour about poisonous metals."

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"Possibly the patriotic thing to do would be to try to dismiss you, really, but I'd feel awfully silly if I decided it was too hard to do this right and then in a decade the Worldwound ate half of Avistan."

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Cam surreptitiously writes and unlocks a call for volunteers to be summoned to Golarion as soon as he has a moderately secure way to teach somebody. "It would be so embarrassing, wouldn't it."

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"You could give me rules for summoning apsels in a non-murderous sort of way, so if something happens I could get you back."

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"If you want to deploy me at the Worldwound you probably don't want me bound harmless."

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"- I wasn't planning to ask you to kill demons. That's not really - I mean, there are lots of demons and I'm sure you could make short work of them, but I'm pretty unsure what'd happen if we just flattened everything in the rift area. I was just thinking we'd - pay people. Go drop some nice gear and nice food on all of them, announce that now, working at the Worldwound is the best paid job in the world, courtesy of you, big bonuses if they figure out how to decrease the contested surface area, pay in spellsilver or diamonds as requested, diamonds on demand for resurrection for anyone killed in the line of duty. Word'll get out that the Worldwound pays well, high level adventurers who currently drop by whenever they want to grind Good but spend most of their time doing things that pay better will be there full time instead, they'll close it themselves. The Crusades made a lot of progress, the problem was just that no one in the world was rich enough to fund that forever. And if we do it this way we'll make lots of friends, lots of powerful people will be invested in our continuing to remain alive, anyone contemplating assassinating or otherwise fucking with us will have tons of powerful enemies..."

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"I guess that you could do that with a standard circle. One issue is that if I give you a standard circle, if anyone got it from you, or scried it, or anything, they could use it, and if they, say, had you coerced or mind controlled, you'd look like the summoner if I checked before answering, and then there I'd be all trussed up and not so many options. I will however give you a circle for me unbound." He hands her one, rolled up on paper.

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She unrolls it, studies it, nods. "Thank you. Let's arrange that resurrection insurance, then, and then there's less than can go wrong."

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"Sure, you wanna land in Sothis or what?"

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"Or outside it, yeah. I haven't already burned my Dim Doors today so I can hop in, hopefully no incidents with local law enforcement. Of course, decent odds they won't sell to me on the grounds that I'm a woman, but it seems worth a shot."

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"I could come along if that's a concern."

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"I guess you could." She looks at him appraisingly. "If we break the law they might well put you in an antimagic field as a first line of response. I can probably Dim Door us out if things look bad but it'd be best to just follow the rules."

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"Are they especially onerous in some way? What am I going to do, shoplift?"

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"They have slavery and I don't know very much about what Chaotic Good people do but freeing slaves is definitely a thing they do. And if it's what you want to do I can figure out how to enable your hobbies but this would be a bad time."

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"I will not go on a sudden slave-freeing rampage. I suppose if I see anybody actively hitting one I'll be tempted to douse the assailant in fish sauce."

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Probably that is as harmless an outlet for chaoticness as can be expected. "I will not weep for them."

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"But will the law enforcement of Sothis, that's the question." He looks up the legal code. And turns the ship Osirianward.

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"In most places you are not allowed to assault people with conjured substances and I would be surprised to learn Osirion were an exception but if I apologize and pay to clean their clothes and am like 'he's my chaotic outsider, sorry' people will probably not involve the police."

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"Hopefully nobody will be very sauceably harming anyone on our excursion."

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"People do not generally, uh, beat their siaves in the streets, though I've never been to Osirion. Probably in Osirion they are more likely to beat their wives in the streets."

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"Also a potentially sauceable offense!"

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"The difference between wives and slaves in Osirion is awfully unclear anyway. But if you sauce people over beating their wives it will be very counterproductive, as the wife will have to do the laundry afterwards."

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"You could let me replace the clothes outright?" he suggests.

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This is stupid but on the other hand, rapport, and 'get mad at people for beating their wives' is a charming way for someone to be chaotic good. "But then everyone in Osirion will be incentivized to have you catch them beating their wives!"

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"Hmm, that's true. Maybe the replacement clothes could say I BEAT MY WIFE, I SUCK."

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"They don't speak Taldane in Osirion. I guess maybe that makes it funnier."

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He machine-translates it into Osirian. "It could say this! Of course, it might have some machine translation error, such as actually saying, 'I DEFEATED MY WIFE AT SPORTS, I USE STRAWS' but they seem like good capitalists in Osirion so probably we can pay someone to go over it."

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Carissa hopes this does not actually happen, it seems like it would be terrible for everyone involved who isn't a Chaotic outsider, but it does seem like it wouldn't cause much lasting harm. "Sure. We can ask at the temple where we get the resurrection insurance."

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"I'm being facetious, I do that sometimes."

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" - okay. I do want you to - get to do things that are important to you that don't hurt anybody who doesn't deserve it."

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"Cool, I'm glad to hear it. You want me to land this thing in the desert?"

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"Yeah. Right outside Sothis, if you can."

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"I can! Any other game plan we ought to go over before we wander in?"

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"If I can, I want to buy it in my own right; if that's not allowed but they'll let my husband buy it, we can claim that's you. For a good package it's probably going to cost 25k up front, we should probably be able to pay in diamonds. I'm going to have Tongues up, and I can cast it on you also, so if you want to do snarky asides do them in some language from your plane and no one'll understand you except me. If we seem to have attracted concerning attention, or if anyone materializes in to shoot at us, I'm going to grab you and try to Dimension Door out; you can use the rod of absorption I got you to absorb any spells they cast before I'm able to get the Dim Door off, or I guess observably you can drown them in fish sauce if you'd rather. I'm not expecting anyone to pull that off, they'd have a pretty small window to scry us in and high level adventurers who'll do assassinations on short notice aren't a dime a dozen."

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"I appreciate that you have anticipated the need for snarky asides. Should I make the diamonds in advance?"

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"Yes, then we won't have to explain what you can do. A fourth circle wizard could in principle have saved up for in in her own right. I'll disguise myself - if you're wondering why I don't just disguise myself male and go myself, I have to give them accurate identifying info for the resurrection -"

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"I hadn't gotten as far as guessing but I would expect you to find being perceived as a dude unpleasant in itself. Your reason is also good. How many diamonds, cut, carat, color -"

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"Three of them, same size as I had you bribe my teacher with. They should be pure, which I think means clear. Cut doesn't matter. Probably they should look natural, it'll raise fewer questions."

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Uncut clear diamonds. Any surprises in the legal code?

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Osirion has a reasonably short and straightforward legal code which is mostly reasonable aside from having curfews for unaccompanied women.

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Is it curfew time now?

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It is!

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"It's technically illegal for you to go unaccompanied so just as well we were planning for me to go. Other than that nothing too weird," he pronounces, and he offers her the diamonds and opens the ship door.

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Carissa disguises herself as the local ethnicity and they can walk through the desert - unpleasantly cold rather than unpleasantly warm, right now, as it's the middle of the night - towards the lights of Sothis. She makes some floating light to illuminate their path. "I can make horses, too, if we want."

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Cam brings his leather coat and puts it on. "I don't know how to ride a horse."

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"That makes sense."

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"Didn't even when I didn't have wings! They're obsolete."

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"Riding horses is painful and unpleasant but useful and I wouldn't expect Chaotic Good people to be very big on things that are that."

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"They're not obsolete because people don't like them, some folks ride horses as a hobby, they're obsolete because modern vehicles are faster, cleaner, and easier to operate. Also I don't actually come from an entire plane of beings who share my exact approach to moral philosophy, I'm just a dude."

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"You're not from a plane of apsels?"

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"I am, but we are not united in moral philosophy, just in the power set."

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" - are there Lawful Evil ones?"

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"There are probably some apsels who would read that way? I think probably not many - the closest you get to a legal system there is a neighborhood association, for one thing, and also most apsels are not psychologically damaged in any of the many ways that lead to evil - but there's billions, so probably at least a few."

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'not psychologically damaged in any of the many ways that lead to evil' sounds like how a plane of Chaotic Good outsiders would think about it. She decides not to get into that. "Huh, billions specifically? The Chaotic planes I know of are infinite."

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"The plane is infinite, the apsels are not. More appear occasionally though."

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She doesn't know that much about how different kinds of outsiders reproduce. "Huh. Demons are infinite."

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"...how do you know? I'd expect an infinite number of demons to... show up more."

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"Hmm, how so?"

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"Well, even if you postulate that they're all evil by virtue of being infinite demons and not infinite regular folks or whatever, if they each individually have any chance of a thing - finding their way here, say, or finding their way back where I'm from, or - writing an exact copy of all the works of Shakespeare, whatever, then presumably they'd have done it."

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"I mean, our plane is also infinite, we think, though that does seem like a good argument for our plane being infinite that I hadn't actually run across - so the places they could show up when they go wandering could be really far from us."

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"I'm not complaining about the place being infinite, but about the population being so, although I guess if you're claiming that populated areas are not disproportionately interesting to demons at all - which kind of calls into question how evil they can all be, honestly - then I don't think it sinks my argument."

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"I think most other planets are also inhabited. The ones in our star system mostly are. I don't know if demons prefer inhabited areas? Evil doesn't mean you actively want to hurt people, I don't really actively want to hurt people and I'm Evil. I think if I were an outsider I'd mostly prefer uninhabited places because there'd be less interference?"

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"...ooh, space aliens." He notes this in his open letter without looking at the screen; they will be able to read around the typos. "Maybe I just don't have a good enough intuition yet for what counts as evil in the points system."

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"Most stuff, I think. Everyone I know is Evil, and we spent our lives at the Worldwound trying to save Golarion."

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"Maybe it is judging your purity of heart or some such."

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"Probably. It doesn't really matter since Hell's going to conquer everything eventually anyway."

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"You seem very convinced of the fate of all the infinite everything."

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"I mean, the chaotic planes being infinite it seems possible to me that parts of them will get away? I'm not sure if that's heretical, though, I wouldn't want to have an opinion about it if I didn't have an apsel. I'm pretty convinced on Asmodeus being able to beat up even the most powerful other gods, and I'm pretty convinced Heaven and Axis can't fight back."

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"And we all know the best sign of an opinion being true is it being illegal to believe otherwise."

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"It's illegal to claim Aroden's alive and, in fact, he's dead, they think so in other countries too. It's illegal to say stupid things generally, and probably any of them are true but most aren't."

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"And why is it illegal to say such things?"

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"...I assume that 'because if you say them, you'll get killed' isn't the kind of answer you're looking for here?"

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"That is the result of them being illegal, surely?"

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"I mean, I think what happens is that they want to stop people from saying those things, so they make it illegal."

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"And they want this out of their genuine and heartfelt concern for the longevity of their beloved citizenry, who, if they say stupid things, will surely drop dead of natural causes?"

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"...no. I - what? I assume you're joking but I don't even have the - concept you're joking off of - I have no idea who decides to make things illegal or what goals it advances."

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"Oh, okay, you could have just said that when I asked why it's illegal."

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"Sorry. It's illegal because someone made it illegal and I don't know how making things illegal advances their goals."

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"Okay. But it doesn't seem like it's likely to be the result of a goal-oriented process aimed, specifically, at people like you winding up believing things accurately."

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"Oh, definitely not. I ...can't really think why anyone would want that, honestly. Obviously I need to be right in some domains like how magic works and who to take orders from."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You are at a very interesting level of self-awareness regarding the quality of your beliefs in domains where it behooves people to deceive you."

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"Is there a specific thing you think I am wrong about for reasons that don't come down to 'it'd be convenient for Asmodeus for you to believe that'?"

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"I feel like no matter who is making it illegal to believe things they are not contributing to an epistemically healthy environment, but I don't have a specific thing I care to challenge you on right now." Stroll stroll where is a church o' Abadar.

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They're big and conspicuous and gold.

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Carissa chews on the set of bizarre assumptions encoded in the phrase 'contributing to an epistemically healthy environment' and looks out for assassins (she also has Detect Scrying up, which would hopefully be a prerequisite to assassins, but she doesn't want to count on it). 

 

They find the Church of Abadar. 

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"Fancy," Cam remarks of the architecture. "Really has more of an impact when you can't just make things out of gold for kicks." He looks around for insurance salespeople, though he is inhibited by being unable to read in Osirian.

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It's sort of illegal to be in a temple to another god but she's not likely to have to answer for it until she's dead and she'll have a lot to answer for, once she is. More of a problem is that there's only a few people around; one sweeping and some kneeling quietly, praying.


She goes to the sweeping one. "Can I buy resurrection insurance here?"

         The kid looks at her skeptically. "Yes. It's - past normal business hours, is it urgent?"

"It's urgent."

        "That can mean up to double price," he warns her.

"That's fine."

        "I'll go get someone."

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"He didn't insist on talking to me instead of you! Good for him."

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"I don't actually know how bad Osirion is for normal people, just that their adventurers were all men, treated other places' women like bizarre curiosities, and were all planning to marry a  teenager once they got bored and wanted to settle down."

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"Oh dear, are we talking like thirteen year olds or like nineteen year olds here?"

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"I think the civilized churches have been pushing it up over time. In Garund - this continent. In Avistan it was always higher, because if you give women a choice they don't marry as young and Avistan was ruled by Cheliax and Cheliax doesn't hate women."

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"I will give it this one point in its favor, yes, you do not seem to have grown up affected specifically by misogyny."

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Carissa has no idea what to make of that but his approval makes her feel vaguely concerned that her pride in Cheliax on this point is somehow heretical. She...is pretty sure Asmodeus finds human details like sex to be, outside of their obvious usefulness for producing more loyal followers, beneath his notice and definitely not worth running your entire society off of. She tries to think how this could be heretical. 

 


Eventually the kid comes back, with an adult in tow. "You want to pay me 5000gp to do resurrection insurance tonight?" he asks skeptically.

"Is that the going rate? Yes. I do. It's for me."

         He takes this in stride. "You're a caster?"

"Yes."

         "Married?"

"Does it matter?"

           Blink blink. "....yes."

"Can I get insurance if I am unmarried."

           "You're going to have to affirm you haven't lied to me under a truth spell at the end," he warns her. "We sell insurance to unmarried people."

"I'm not married."

           "Living children?"

"No."

            "Do you have a will?"

"No."

            "Source of income?"

"...adventuring, interplanar trade."

             "Are you to your knowledge wanted for a capital crime in any countries with extradition treaties with Osirion?"

"...no."

             "Have there to your knowledge been attempts on your life in the last month."

"No."

This goes on a while.

               

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Cam transcribes the conversation surreptitiously. He supposes for all they know he's just a random guy she got to come along so she wouldn't be arrested for curfew violation.

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           "We don't cover the Starstone."

"Understood."

            "We don't cover retrieval if your soul is trapped, Maledicted, attached to your body because you have been raised as undead, or is otherwise impaired in responding to a resurrection."

"Can I pay extra for that?"

            "You can give us.....eighty percent of the bounty you want us to offer for it, up front."

"I'll do that."

                "We don't usually see success with a bounty of less than 50k. "

"Okay."

                "Can you affirm that the money you're paying with is yours, to your knowledge acquired legally, that you have sole authority over your finances, that you do not know yourself to have any debts or liens you haven't declared..."

 

 

And eventually they will take the three diamonds and give her a copy of a certificate. 

             "Can I help you, sir?" the guy says.

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"Oh, I'm just here so she doesn't have curfew issues, thanks."

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"Casters can apply for exemptions to that! You just need to demonstrate adequate good sense, Law, and self-defense ability."

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"I'll keep that in mind. Thank you."

 

And they head out. 

 

"Wow, that was closer than I'd hoped."

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"On the expense? You could have told me 'hey give me another one' and I would have pulled it out of a coat pocket." Speaking of coat pockets, if he has any replies from Sothis now would be good, he will conjure for his latest mail and stick it in his computer.

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"No, the 'are you wanted for capital crimes in any countries we have extradition treaties with'. I don't know if they have extradition treaties with Absalom or Cheliax, but it'd have been really inconvenient if I'd happened to!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh. I guess that's one advantage of not being very well-informed."

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"There are some of them!" - her Detect Scrying pings something. She grabs him and Dimension Doors.

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"Yeep!" he says, stumbling. "What was that about -"

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"Scry - let's get out of here -"

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He opens the shuttle door. ..checks what's in his mail while she steps in after him.

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Fanfiction about him and Carissa! A passionate plea from someone whose baby died of diabetes in Bangladesh before Revelation urging him to make apsel-summoning public knowledge in Golarion. A letter from Lastwall laying out their impression of the geopolitical situation and asking if he has any way to tell them how many potatoes he dropped, they're trying to make sure they're all accounted for. 

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He unfortunately does not have such a way. Probably he should have marked the potatoes 1, 2, 3, etcetera so they could at least tell if there were missing ones in the middle. If he doesn't have a reply from Sothis he will agreeably lift the shuttle into the air as Carissa asked.

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She relaxes once they're in the air. "Do you have a way of telling who scried us?"

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"...I can try to make a model of the person but I don't know if it's a conjurable parameter."

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"In line with your archaeological permissions you can try if you'd like."

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Model of person who scried them?

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A priest, in shiny silver armor, kneeling and gazing at the ground in front of them.

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"Iomedae. But how would they know - can you make, on paper, anything they've written about me or about you, and a report on how they found out -"

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"That's another one that'll take me a while."

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- nod. "How high up are we?"

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"Right now? Thirty thousand feet and climbing."

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"I don't know what would happen if someone tried to teleport to a moving ship. ...probably they don't know either and won't chance it."

 

She stares worriedly at the figurine for another moment, thinking. "- I should get that armor working so we can get started at the Worldwound."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How long'll that take?"

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"Five days. I guess we could get started at the Worldwound before that, drop things off, maybe with a note, that's pretty low risk..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Just parachute them down among the encampment or whatever they have there?"

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"Yeah. Some good food, the food's terrible there, and nice clothes, enough for everyone...probably we'd have to tell some church to take charge of the distribution or they'll all be at odds about it, I assume you won't accept my church there?"

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"I'd prefer not. Why a church, why not just drop too much to fight over?"

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"That'd be so much." - giggle. "I guess we could, though. There's - a couple thousand people deployed at each of the wardstone fortresses. Probably all of them could haul away a couple of trunkfuls of things to their rooms before it felt kind of futile and childish..."

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"Sure. If you want to be really extra I could figure out everybody's size and wardrobe aesthetics and taste in food and personalize the boxes but that might be a bit much."

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"It seems like at minimum it'd take much longer than a report on who's scrying us and it's not that outrageous an escalation from scrying to Wish-kidnapping, which will work fine on both of us if anyone tries it, so probably we want to make friends soon more than we want to impress them tons."

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"Fair enough. Fancy extraplanar clothes or should I just dump the contents of an example clothing store or three on them? Are there any common allergies or food intolerances, I don't want to send the anti-Worldwound forces into anaphylaxis."

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"Chelish food won't hurt them. I guess food from your world might, if it has terribly strange ingredients. I think...not fancy extraplanar clothes, we don't want to send every high level adventurer in the world rushing to the Worldwound, yet."

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"Name me some staples and stores, then."

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Sure, she can name every nice candy store and fancy clothes shop in Corentyn. 

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And he can design care packages labeled things like "SIZE 12" and "CHOCOLATES AND CARAMELS" and "SHOES - ASSORTED SIZES" and "CANDIED FRUIT, GINGER, NUTS, ETCETERA" and once they're over the Worldwound encampment he can aim a telescope down there and start placing them as neatly on the ground as he can from straight up.

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She observes this thoughtfully. "Thank you."

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"No problem."

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And she'll go work on his armor.

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Cam lazily circumnavigates the globe to get satellite footage of it in case anyone back home is specifically hoping for magic- and/or weather-influenced features of Golarion and will not be satisfied by the 1:1 scale model, or just doesn't want to wait for it to be done, or is worried that being impromptu swapped in for a different astroengineering project in a system that already has planets in it will affect something.

He checks his mail every fifteen minutes.

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Lastwall has written more.

 

A loyal agent of the Chelish crown might want to close the Worldwound because right now most of Cheliax's military is stationed at the Worldwound, and much of its wealth flows into its defense; if the Worldwound were closed, Cheliax would perhaps return to reconquering its lost empire, which would be very bad. A not-very-loyal agent of the Chelish crown might also want to close the Worldwound because of how it represents an existential threat to Golarion, though. Probably in terms of the overall effects on sapients it is good for the Worldwound to be closed but this is surprisingly unclear. The Law case is stronger. Iomedae has no guidance yet; She's reconsidering lots of Her plans in light of Cam's plane and species existing. It seems that Golarion's gods cannot act there at all. 

Someone has diligently written up a long list of factual disagreements Lastwall has with Infernal Cheliax, among them the percentage of people in non-Cheliax countries who go to Hell when they die and which god is widely agreed to be the strongest (it's Pharasma, most people agree) and whether powerful people not loyal to a Good god are overwhelmingly Evil. They note though that most people who are Asmodeans do not exactly believe a bunch of Asmodean factual claims so much as they believe a bunch of Asmodean not-quite-factual claims and fit in the facts around it. 

There are so many earnest reassurances that they're praying for him.

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Sorta hits different when the gods, like, exist.

He recasts the factual disagreements as though they're things he found while reading random texts on his own to present to Carissa.

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She is not surprised that other places tell their followers to expect a nice afterlife. "It's a good bribe, right. And every afterlife goes easier if you're not - resisting it, trying to cling to all your human frailties that the afterlife wants to strip away.... I dunno how many people in other places go where. I think other places mostly don't keep good statistics. ....Osirion might, but, I wouldn't trade them even if it does get you Axis."

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"Is it the sexism? Presumably it's not the slavery."

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"I do like that Cheliax doesn't have human slavery but I guess I'm not theologically attached to that. But - yeah. The part of me that Asmodeus can use is that I am loyal and smart and good at magic and good at being useful and a quick learner, and the part that Osirian can use is that I make babies, if you prevent me from killing them. And - I don't expect to be able to take all of who I am with me into the afterlife, that's not how afterlives work, but it feels like the thing that'll come out of the process of turning me into a devil is me, just more useful. And I'm not sure that's true about - Osirion, about Axis - at all."

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"...do people in Axis have babies, I'd been developing the impression that that was strictly an alive people thing."

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"They do not. I dunno how that fits into what Osirion's trying to shape them for."

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"Have I mentioned yet that in all likelihood you are not going to any of these places and will instead turn into a daeva?"

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"Why do you think that."

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"Well, that's what happens when you summon a daeva. So far it's happened to everyone who has ever done that. This is an unprecedented system interaction, of course, but maybe mine wins."

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"What otherwise happens to people from your world?"

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"Place called Limbo. They're still indestructible and they get an indestructible item apiece but they don't have other powers."

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"Who's in charge there?"

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"There aren't gods around, just a bunch of indestructible humans, they have lots of different local setups. I guess the folks who manage their imports have relatively more worldwide clout than the people who are mayors of specific villages or something."

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"We should check whether that's where Golarion people who've summoned something go when they die."

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"It's not, I would have heard of it. Unless it's way less common than you being in a class on it implies."

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" - yeah, people who've summoned normal demons definitely go to normal afterlives, summoning devils to make arrangements for once you go to Hell is actually recommended - but I mean, we should get someone to summon an apsel and then kill them and check - it's a very important question -"

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"...I'm not necessarily opposed to this experiment but it would need to be a consenting volunteer who was not evil."

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"Good people aren't allowed to commit suicide, it's Evil. We could get a volunteer who agrees in the abstract that they would be pleased to be inn Heaven or in the daeva afterlife, or we could arrange a resurrection for them if they're displeased?"

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"Yeah, I don't mind if you kill them because for technical reasons this is preferable for the salvation of their soul, they just have to be okay with it."

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"I dunno exactly how much consent they're allowed to give but presumably someone going for Good would know." She has not killed anyone before but she is not planning to suddenly develop squeamishness, this is extremely not the time. "Maybe we can pick someone up in Tian Xia, I think Good people in the Inner Sea are suspicious of Chelish ones. And we can get those communication mirrors while we're at it."

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"Sure, I think the machine translation's working well enough to do written back and forth even if it can't derive how anything's pronounced!" ...peanut gallery back home where in Tian Xia would be opportune?

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Goka, probably, big international port city with lots of churches and lots of candidates for a bizarre sketchy suicide mission, and also magic item stores.

 

Some demons are partisans of the country that had a communist revolution and is having a bad time now but it'd work FINE if they were post-scarcity, which they could be!

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Cam sympathizes with this opinion but is not currently loose!

Who wants to be named on the circle (and has many nominations to be this person from other parties)?

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There are some top contenders and then some time for people to write in comments on the top contenders. Is he planning to sabotage the circle so there'll be a loose demon on Golarion, it really seems like Golarion could use a (well-vetted) loose demon.

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He was not planning on totally loose but he was planning on reasonable long-term bindings, sort of like what they have the Martian power grid fairies with adopted children on but adapted for apsels.

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Okay but totally loose they could just, you know, modernize the place. It'd be really good.

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"I'm going to need local clothes and spellsilver to barter for comms mirrors and pay off our subject," she says. "Also I have no idea how to find them - we could put up an ad but that attracts a lot of attention, I assume it's not good enough to grab a kid who's neutral -"

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"I do not want to perform the experiment on a child, no. Could try one of the local churches? Those'll have readings, right?"

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"Yes but I would expect them to report to their gods and to be unusually unwilling to work with an Evil person."

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"Why would it be a problem if they reported to their gods?"

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“Do you want gods involved in our plans, I do not want gods involved in our plans.”

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"Depends on the gods!"

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"It really doesn't! Any of them could crush or enslave us both! And obviously they are entitled to do so if it occurs to them but I don't see a lot of reason to encourage it occurring to them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's an interesting definition of 'entitled'. Okay, do you want to try, like, some wizard school, or...?"

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"The obvious thing is just to put up an announcement where people post opportunities for adventurers, offering good money plus a resurrection to run a suicidal experiment, open to Good people only. If we want less publicity than that...we could try approaching people privately one on one? That'll take a long time, though. I don't suppose you'd be all right with killing them without asking and then resurrecting them and giving them enough money they're not in retrospect mad about it?"

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"Running the ad is fine assuming we make sure we source the resurrection, which as I understand it will require going to churches. I do not want to ambush people and then buy them off, especially since I do not know what the markets for various commodities are about to do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Magic item prices're going to hang in there, you need specialist labor to make them. But that's fair enough. 

....can you conjure for the information of whether someone is Good."

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"I don't think so."

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"Ugh. Okay. We can find a local neutral church to source it at, Nethys or something, and advertise where adventurers hang out."

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"I'm okay with that."

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There's so much at stake here that it would obviously be much better for their interests to just buy a slave and raise them afterwards and send them home rich enough to buy a barony and also it'd make someone way better off unlike this plan which just makes a Good adventurer slightly richer, but Carissa doesn't really expect Good to care about those kinds of things at all and probably it would be bad for rapport to even raise the argument. "I can't write the posters; can you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll write 'em, you comprehend languages to see if they look egregiously stupid?"

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"Yeah. I can tell you what I want them to say in Tian, if that helps, but there's no Tongues for writing."

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"That sounds so inconvenient! The computer doesn't know how anything is pronounced - especially in languages without phonetic alphabets, which Tian is - so I can't transcribe things you say with Tongues, unfortunately."

He writes up an advertisement in the best font the Void has to offer: nonevil subjects wanted for suicidal experiment, generous compensation including a resurrection.

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"Do they just have to be nonevil, because sourcing nonevil people is significantly easier than sourcing Good ones."

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"I will settle for just-nonevil," he allows, "as long as they ping so we know they aren't quietly evil." He adjusts the ad.

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"All right. I don't have a city in mind, but we want a big one, if it's going to have adventurers high enough level to ping."

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"Goka's big." He steers for Goka.

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"I met a guy from there once. He seemed all right. Politely confused about all our gods but we were politely confused about his, so."

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"Does that mean it will be hard to find a temple to Nethys?"

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"I remember vaguely suspecting they still worshipped him, as Qi Zhong, but maybe that's a different god of magic."

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Cam looks this up.

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Probably distinct! Qi Zhong is neutral good, Nethys is neutral.

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"They look different to me but I'm fine with going to a Qi Zhong temple if you are."

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"What are you looking at, when you say they look different?"

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"Qi Zhong is Good apparently."

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"How rude of Him. Hmmm, maybe I should refresh myself on the Tian pantheon before we decide where to go - you can make a copy of any existing book about Them in air on the shuttle, if you'd like."

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What has the peanut gallery been recommending on this topic?

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There are some books about the Tian pantheon; they agree on many points and disagree on many others. There's a big diff document written up in a collaborative-editing setup but it'd be hard for Carissa to read.

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He will produce the least-disagreed-with book for Carissa and read up on its diffs for himself.

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The Tian way of conceptualizing the gods is subtly askew from the Avistani one, which perhaps isn't surprising because gods are big and any human grasps only a tiny part of what they are, but is in another sense surprising because what are continents, to gods?

 

She will think about that once she's smarter. She's working on the next round of headbands once she gets stuck on Cam's armor.

 

"Kofusachi‎ seems your speed," she comments. "I guess I could live with him, but I'd rather go for Uwan, who is obviously Abadar, or Cheku, which has got to be Pharasma, on the grounds they're less likely to have it in for me and everything I care about."

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"I really like the sound of Kofusachi! If I were a god I'd be that kind, I think. I resent Pharasma personally so let's go with Abadar who seems fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why do you resent Pharasma personally?" Carissa kind of resents Abadar personally but this is really not the time and the resurrection insurance was pretty painless.

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"It's all the death, I'm against it."

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"Planet's finite. I guess you could ban childbearing."

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"There are more planets! Lots of 'em! Also you are not anywhere near carrying capacity even without magic."

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"Cheliax isn't but that's because we have Asmodeus. In other places I think their population is mostly kept in check by famine. I guess if we drop food everywhere in the world that'll stop being a problem, and you could fit a lot more, but still - to gods, a couple thousand years is nothing, a plan that catastrophically falls apart then is a terrible plan now. ....do apsels know how to get between planets?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, this shuttle could go to one if you want."

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"How long does it take? Are the planets in fact infinite?"

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"Couple days for the nearest ones in this system? No, longer, because I don't have preexisting course plotting software for this system and would be doing it manually, but not that long. And probably not but I can make those."

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"Huh, I guess death kind of isn't necessary anymore. Possibly Pharasma is changing her plans in light of that, I'm not sure. It still serves the sorting function but in the Boneyard they do still sort people, just differently, so maybe there's another way that works as well for that? I think there are treaties among the gods about these things, they change only if it serves everyone, and it's not worth trying to guess how that'd go - but differently, with apsels."

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"Sorting people seems less a 'function' and more a 'detente'."

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"Maybe. Asmodeus is not planning to let it go on forever."

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"I like his solution even less."

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"This does not surprise me. You've probably slowed him down a bunch, if that cheers you up. Apsels seem extremely..complicating."

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"Oh good." Wag.

Goka approaches. "You want me to land it or do you wanna Feather Fall and fly respectively? I can direct it from the ground."

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"Let's leave it in the air, then. Awkward if someone steals it, and I don't expect there's clear land around Goka the way there is around Absalom."

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"Cool." He tries to find a spot over a building with a likely holy symbol.

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Even if it's the same gods the churches look very different. She gives herself a Tian (male) body and watches anxiously out the window.

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"Ready?" he asks, when the shuttle's parked.

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"Yeah."

 

Goka's streets are more humid than Absalom's, and the nonhumans around are of different varieties, but there's a similar dynamic. 

She will take the poster in. "I'm advertising for test subjects for a magic experiment. Pay's good. Is there somewhere here I can put up the ad?"

       "Price depends on size, duration, affiliation with the church -"

"None. It's this size."

       "Can I pay in spellsilver?"

"Go to a moneychanger." 

         "...okay."

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Cam has a mic recording everything around him for the linguists back home to work on but he can't understand it himself because he doesn't have Tongues on.

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Carissa is not going to ask her demon to counterfeit the local currency because she has become more firmly convinced than ever that Chaos is bad actually. She'll go to the moneychanger and stumble through getting enough money for her ad, and also for her mirrors while she's at it. 

 

 

"Okay. We can come back tomorrow or the next day, see if there are any takers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Do you want to go back up to the shuttle or bum around the city or what?"

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"Pick up my mirrors. I'll see if they have any good magic items on sale, too, I guess, though if they do and don't take spellsilver we'll have to come back to the moneychangers, I didn't want to ask for a robbery-tempting amount of cash." And muttering, "There aren't muggers in Cheliax," which probably isn't even true but there certainly aren't ones who bother wizards.

Permalink Mark Unread

"All right. We can always go back and sell some more spellsilver."

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"We could mix it up and sell something else but I'm much less confused about the effects of spellsilver getting cheap than about the effects of, I don't know, textiles or spices or something getting cheap."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If spices get cheap the rich start eating bland food as a weird countersignaling behavior, I've read? And the poor invent curry." He makes himself a samosa to nibble.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I guess that doesn't sound very objectionable. I was more thinking the geopolitical effects. Which might also be unobjectionable, I just don't know much about the spice trade - some places get rich off it - probably diamonds are the thing to go for if we're worried that the spellsilver makes us too identifiable, diamonds being cheaper would also be good."

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"I am happy to distribute any of these commodities. I would be concerned about the diamonds if they weren't relevantly a consumable, that does do weird things to markets, I'd rather not dump a lot of sacks of gold on places. Though it's possible that the world as a whole is too illiquid and a little wouldn't hurt, maybe the church of Abadar has a guess."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not going to counterfeit, I like my Law. I guess once we're acting openly we can ask them if they think there should be more gold in the world...I don't see how that would be good or bad, actually - Cheliax uses paper money, backed by Hell -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Paper money actually still works if it's not backed by anything once people are used to the idea! It's cool. Backed by, what, shares of the Hell Corporation, that seems counter to the aesthetic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Backed by damned souls, I think. I don't know in what sense they are backed by damned souls, I'm not sure if, should you accumulate all the money in Cheliax and take it to Hell and ask to buy all the damned souls, they'd have to let you? I guess maybe they would. ....that sounds like the kind of idea you would be into but please let's research it for at least a week, trying to do contracts with devils blind is a great way to have something disastrous happen -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will not try to do it blind! I do like the sound of doing all that research though. If you sell your soul do you give a particular amount to the purchaser in paper money? Does that soul not enter the pool backing the currency, or is it a collaborative currency-backing setup, wherein everyone who buys a soul agrees to contribute them to this project?"

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"You know, I haven't actually looked into it. I think if you sell your soul to a specific devil it's theirs and not - part of the broader Hell resource poll - so maybe those aren't among the souls backing everything. People mostly don't sell their souls for paper money, though I'm sure you could, they mostly sell them for magic favors or protection or power, but I guess those probably have a monetary value of some kind."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I meant the other way around, can you back money with your own soul and thereby print your own money if you decide to enter it into circulation. Is there fractional reserve soul banking - I bet there could be if they never have to cough up because no one goes to Hell with a briefcase and says 'I would like twelve' -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We could summon a devil and ask?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's not and say we did. Would the Abadarans know?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess they might, they do lots of banking. Asking them gives away that we're Chelish, though, and here we're pretending not to be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I really am not though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you want to go ask the Abadarans banking questions once we're done shopping I will linger in the corner and try to only make faces if you say something dangerous."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I appreciate the accommodation of my grisly fascination with the soul bank."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am aiming for either of us to feel at least mildly guilty about our inevitable betrayal so we have to be very friendly." 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it so inevitable? I suppose there is this awkward tension hanging over everything where you're evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's totally inevitable! We are literally exact opposite alignments and only working together because I have magic power over you, but not enough to stop you from murdering me! I think even Good people would know to expect betrayal under these circumstances!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, I'm happy to compromise on chaos if I find a suitable legal system or whatever, it's only I've been living in an anarchy for the last hundred-odd years! Do you wanna meet in the middle at Lawful Good?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ewww, have you met paladins? They are very annoying and also want to destroy everything I hold dear."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't require that either of us be a paladin specifically!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think much of the Lawful Good gods either. I guess if I end up Good after closing the Worldwound I won't actively go murder any orphans about it but I don't expect to, there are all these rules and loopholes and you have to spend so much of your time on it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mostly spend my time reading books, flying around, playing the violin...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, you're an outsider, I think it's different for them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I admit I did not fly around or play the violin when I was a human but I have real good personal continuity with myself from back then, dying did not much change me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Are you sure you'd have noticed? Especially if it's been a long time?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes! I'm a fairly obsessive notetaker and obviously the fact that my notes from life did not accompany me into the thereafter did not stop me from obtaining copies."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. I hope people who summoned apsels do become them when we die, sounds like a great deal."

Permalink Mark Unread

"As far as I know the other daeva types are also this way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Afterlives here aren't. They shape you. Which makes sense, because they are the creation of beings who don't particularly gain from our current forms. I don't really understand who or what made your setup."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nobody has stepped forward to claim responsibility."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I wouldn't bet on them in a fight with Asmodeus but maybe they have long since wandered off."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Honestly I kind of thought it was just all happening by itself but the existence proof of gods as a thing is an update there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It doesn't really seem like the kind of thing that could happen by itself but the creators could be - not very agent-y." And then she is distracted by a shop window with magic items.

Permalink Mark Unread

Ooh, magic items.

Permalink Mark Unread

If Carissa manages not to die she's going to be so rich and have so many magic items.

 

 

....just the mirrors for now, though.

Permalink Mark Unread

Mirrors! "Drones don't have a good enough range to get across the ocean without refueling so I'll have to drop this off when we're back over Avistan."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We probably want to get in really close so that I can make it invisible for the trip."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the duration on that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Seven minutes. I could make some more expensive purchases and make it fourteen."

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"Quick drone can do that from miles off, at least."

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"That's probably good enough while we're unscryable." She reluctantly tears herself away from the beautiful magic items. "You wanted to ask the church banking questions?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I did, can I get a Tongues or should I cross my fingers about the literacy rate?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can get you a Tongues though I bet priests of Abadar can all read."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Score one for widespread religiosity on Golarion!"

Back to the temple of Abadar. Who is available to ask random questions of?

Permalink Mark Unread

The desk staff, for free until someone else comes in wanting something, or the priests, for a price per quarter-hour that each of them sets individually.

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Cam will try the desk staff! "Hi! I am morbidly curious about the Chelish currency system, do you know things about that here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Chelish? I'm sorry, I don't think I even know where that is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Inner Sea area. Apparently their money is backed by souls."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That sounds....evil? I'd want to check with compliance before we accept money backed in souls. Maybe it's fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, it's probably evil and I don't have any I want to deposit, I was mostly wondering things like whether they could do fractional reserve and stuff, but if you don't know I understand it'd just be speculation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hell does its own banking separately from us, I'm sorry I don't know more about it. We tried fractional reserve banking but a lot of catastrophes are correlated, even globally, like when Aroden died everyone wanted their money back and the banks on Golarion had to take out loans from Axis, so recommendations are much more conservative now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That makes sense! But presumably the damned soul supply tends to inflate over time?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I suppose it must? Hell's been around for a long time, the rate of deaths on Golarion who are damned to Hell specifically might be pretty small by comparison to the base population. It's...eight, nine percent, I think."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Really? How'd you conclude that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Scrying dead people. There's a lot of variance by country but that's what I remember for the overall number. - excuse me." And he waves over another customer.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Eight, nine percent," hmms Cam thoughtfully, strolling out of the church again.

Permalink Mark Unread

....Detect Thoughts?

 

This produces the result that Cam's mind isn't there at all, because it's behind a barrier - probably because he lined his skull with lead. Which. Goes to figure. 

"Eight or nine percent," she echoes back neutrally.

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's less than the maximum ignorance prior of one-ninth per box in the chart, and less still given that people condemned to Abbadon get their pick of the next door neighbors and Hell sounds marginally more appealing than the Abyss, and less still given that there is an entire country under the thumb of Asmodeus! I guess a staggering number of souls are probably infant mortality, I don't know if the statistic is mostly looking at adults..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't really think they're taking good statistics. I guess we could pay someone who knows more for more information - or maybe you could conjure it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...name me somebody dead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Fernanda Sevar."

Permalink Mark Unread

"May I conjure the present physical form of Fernanda Sevar and her immediate surroundings to a five foot radius with all water replaced with plastic, a harmless substance the shuttle contains plenty of, so that it's not squishy?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It'll be kind of large? I guess we can drop it in the ocean afterwards. Once we're back on the shuttle you may do that somewhere unoccupied except by air."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I meant a miniaturized version, sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, you can make that in unoccupied space."

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"Unoccupied except by air."

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh. "You can make that in space unoccupied except by air, and not inside someone."

Permalink Mark Unread

Model?

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There's a - lumpy, shapeless mass of flesh. It's plastic and can't be quivering but it looks like it's quivering.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...well, I hope you didn't like her very much." He hands it over.

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"That's what the first stage of being reshaped in Hell looks like," Carissa says dispassionately, taking it. "It seems scary because we're human, and very small and limited in perspective. It's like souls when first conceived and encountering the concept of bodies going "ewww! it's made of meat! how could anyone live in that!" She'll be fine. I guess that means you can conjure for peoples' afterlives, at least as long as we can tell the larval stages of different kinds of outsider apart?"

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"Plane is probably a conjurable parameter, come to think of it. Just means I'd need to try more times for anybody we were looking for."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The problem is people I know - or people the Church of Abadar knows - aren't very like people on average, I don't think. Maybe we should think about this once I've gotten us fancier headbands, it sounds like the sort of puzzle they help with."

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"I could conjure all the dead people, very very small, per plane, and weigh them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I guess you could! Huh. Is there a way to tell in advance if they'll fit in the shuttle."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you have an order of magnitude of how many we're talking about here? A pound of sand is like fifty thousand grains."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We don't have many records from before the fall of Azlant, I don't know if it was around for a century or a hundred thousand years. Probably....in any given year not more than a billion people die on Golarion...so if you stuck to ones who died in the last thousand years you'd know you didn't have more than a thousand billion. ...probably a lot less, but I don't know and it's definitely less than a billion. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't actually know if I can stick to ones who died in the last thousand years. Though I can do as-of-a-particular-time if you want to graph how the population ratios are changing over time!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...well, we could always drop off the mirror and then go to another planet and do the test there. And then we'd get to see another planet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How about just the moon to start, it's lots closer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"All right. To drop off the mirror and then to the moon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure. Fly up to the shuttle or call it down?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's fly up to it." It feels less risky, somehow, though of course any adversaries they'd attracted would be able to fly. No one scried them in this shopping-interval, though. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam snaps his wings open and takes off next time they find a clear enough space in the road.

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She's faster, since her flying is magic. She doesn't wholly relax until they're enshuttled. "All right. - do you want concessions such as that you get to be in the room with the mirror, for giving it to the woman who offered -"

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"It's very kind of you to offer. I hadn't been planning to insist but it'd make me less concerned about objectionable plotting behind my back which you might find desirable."

Permalink Mark Unread

There is no point in denying that she would do that. "I'm willing to do that since I'm sort of counting on you to deliver it to the right place and not drop it in the ocean accidentally anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool. We can put one end over here next to the screen - may I make a mounting setup for it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In unoccupied air out of copper and steel."

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"It will be so steampunk." He makes one with unnecessary gears and clips the mirror into it.

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"I don't know what steampunk is but I like it. What do the gears do?" She hands him the other mirror for drone-sending.

Permalink Mark Unread

"They're decorative! Steampunk is an aesthetic genre that includes decorative gears. You will have to let me make the drone."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What're drones made out of?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Roughly the same things as the shuttle? The materials science is complicated and I don't have a list memorized."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod. "You can make a standard sort of drone on the ship in unoccupied air with enough fuel to make it to Cheliax and back."

Permalink Mark Unread

Dog-sized drone. He opens a compartment and puts the mirror in. "You want to add a note or anything?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should, yeah. The contents don't matter but the form should - communicate that it's me and that you're still working with me -  is there some kind of really distinctly technological paper we could use or something -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...paper hasn't improved much since I was alive but maybe 'very rectangular and white' is impressive here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you want to make some characteristic white paper in unoccupied shuttle air and I'll look at it and think if it's impressive?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure. - I think that phrasing doesn't allow it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry. You can make a sheet of characteristic white paper in unoccupied shuttle air."

Permalink Mark Unread

8.5"x11" paper appears.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I think it'll do. Can you make appear on the paper, in ink unless the future uses something fancier, I hope this enables future collaboration, Paraduchess." 

Permalink Mark Unread

He'll do it in toner.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks. It'll be less than seven minutes to the destination?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless we have incorrect directions."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could you with permission make a tiny map with her on it, to check if she's where we expect?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can do a model but not render it into a map."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. I wish I could scry her. If you'd like you can make a model at a thousandth scale of her and her surroundings, if it's a major city I should recognize it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Model.

Permalink Mark Unread

"- that's Egorian, yeah. Right near the palace." Shiver.

 

 

 

"Can't do spells through mirrors. All right, let's send it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam opens the door and lets the drone out. Its journey is shown on the screen of the shuttle.

Permalink Mark Unread

Which is good because she's made it invisible so its journey would otherwise be hard to observe.

 

"What kind of person ends up working in Chelish foreign intelligence, do you suppose?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I imagine I wouldn't get along with them well but have no very specific premonitions."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What kind of people do you get along with well?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Decent ones."

Permalink Mark Unread

She's going to try to not take that personally but it's going to be challenging. "Well, that's practically disqualifying for intelligence services, I think. Shame, because otherwise you'd be awfully good at it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Forensic conjuration is not my specialty but I could learn it, I suppose. I don't know if I have the personality type."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would hate being a spy but mostly because I'd immediately get killed. If the daeva indestructibility thing works out, it sounds like fun."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What would you do? If you turned into a daeva. An apsel in particular, if you wish to be specific."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Uh, make myself smarter and wiser and more splendid, I guess, first thing. And then if being smarter didn't make something better occur to me I'd go make Cheliax really nice. Half of people can be wizards, I'd try to get that half wizarded. If you kept them in spellsilver then you could make enough headbands to make everyone smarter and then have more people who could be wizards. They wouldn't have to be really good wizards, just good enough to make headbands and rings of sustenance and cast Unseen Servant, and no one'd really have to ever work again. Maybe I'd do it for other places, too, once I had enough gear to protect myself, on the condition they teach their girls to be wizards too. Or let other places join Cheliax if they want the good stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. That's not a bad answer." His tail swishes.

The drone approaches the paraduchess's home.

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can probably do a lot of that, once you're not mind-controllable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I look so forward to not being mind-controllable. Where do you want it to put the mirror?" he asks as the house comes into view.

Permalink Mark Unread

"On her desk, I guess, if we see an opening to do that. Presumably she trusts her servants but it seems better if no one else sees it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"She might not have a window open..." He checks.

Permalink Mark Unread

She does not.

Permalink Mark Unread

"In the courtyard's all right, then."

Permalink Mark Unread

The drone deposits the mirror in the courtyard on a little table and then flies away again.

Permalink Mark Unread

Carissa watches anxiously. "What would you do? If you weren't under a binding and didn't have to worry about mind control and could do whatever you wanted?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In this hypothetical do I have to worry about getting squashed by gods or unsummoned or anything?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Does that limit your creativity too much? Not having to worry about gods feels like...not having to worry about gravity, to me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, then we should definitely go to the moon, I can turn the gravity off in between."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Going somewhere else is a fine way not to worry about the gods, but you've got to worry about them while you're here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough. Well, I lack the specific emphasis on women's rights - a worthy cause, but not my single issue, and I think it will mostly improve secularly on its own as other metrics are handled - so I would aim at ending material scarcity, same as last time, it worked out so well."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't see why it'd improve as other things do, especially. Last time - you mean, in the world of humans you're from?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, that. I think contraception in itself will help enormously, and enough wealth that women aren't economically dependent on forming a household unit with someone who works outside the home while they do household-sustaining labor."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, yes, that'd help a lot, but I can't see why men would let it happen, in the places where they don't already? If you're a man it's convenient if women are economically dependent on men."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, sure, you could say that, but they're all currently free-riding on lots of other factors pointing that way. If there's enough wealth flying around, then anybody who wants to offer opportunities to women - Calistrians, folks from Andoran, anybody with a profit motive, other women - you personally if you're not all talk - any of those people can, y'know, afford it. Then all the women with all those opportunities can have their interests more represented in whatever locales. And individual families or even communities can be repressive and abusive in the face of this pressure but it's not in the interest of, like, Taldor men as a class, to swan in and force their neighbors to oppress, say, Galtan women as a class, it's mostly going to be operative on a more local level and therefore relatively tractable to rich entities with an interest in the subject."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most people never leave their hometowns. I guess if they were rich enough it was really easy maybe that'd change. And if things were lawful enough it was safe to travel."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah! Most people on my original planet don't have shuttles like this one, they take buses that movers carry, but that's much faster."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess we'll see how it works out."


 

Someone moves in the mirror. Carissa stiffens. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can they hear us by default or are you gonna Tongues a sign language or what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They can hear us."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can hear you," a dry woman's voice confirms from the other side. "And we ought to assume, I think, that other people can, too, though not on my end."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You must've noticed I'm not very scryable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I did notice that, and am pleased to learn it's not because you have been destroyed utterly, unless you have and I'm talking to someone else."

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, the state of the art where he's from for secure comms is chiplocking but who knows if even that would hold up to a concerted attack here.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're talking to the person with the apsel, in any event."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. I am satisfied of that. What observable effects on the world are your plans going to have in the next couple of weeks?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, that's very direct. Not as rude as asking what her plans are, but still. "Sorry, what am I getting out of this?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, in your place I wouldn't get myself killed, and you're probably going to, and if it seems better for you to be alive I can probably effect that, and if it seems better for you to be dead I am not particularly positioned to effect that, so it's mostly upside for you, I think."

Permalink Mark Unread


" - I'm going to think about that for a minute."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't take tea until nearly four."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam finds a little app for multiple time zone tracking and sets it to handle various salient metropolises and puts the widget on the screen.

Permalink Mark Unread

She appreciates that even though it's clearly mostly just a way of saying 'we'll talk for as long as you're interesting'. Or until a team of people working for her are able to use the mirror as a Teleport location. 

 

"Let's get far far away," she writes on a note and passes it to Cam. 

 

"We dropped some things at the Worldwound. Care packages, nice clothes, spellsilver. We were going to keep doing that, and make it clear that it's an apsel doing it, aimed at supply lines adequate to close the thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why the Worldwound?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam starts heading for the Moon.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's like being back in school. On the other hand, she was very good at school. On the other other hand, the woman presumably knows that, and picked this tactic with that in mind -


She can say the obvious bits, at least. "He's Chaotic Good and it had to be something we'd agree on. It'll mean there are powerful people invested in our remaining alive, even if they'd certainly prefer we weren't operating independently. It serves Cheliax but not in a way where anyone could publicly oppose it just on those grounds, and I think the churches fighting the Worldwound'll be handicapped in opposing it even secretly. It'll take a while, so it buys time to arrange various contingencies. It will prevent the world being eaten by demons, which I'm in favor of, because I'm Lawful, and also live here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It might work for a little while. It won't work for very long."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not going to tell you my backup plans but I do have them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could be one of them, and arrange to raise you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think I could arrange that elsewhere at a lower price."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there a backup plan for your apsel?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That I think you can't afford."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Obviously, summoning one with the same circle you used has been tried; equally obviously, it didn't work. I doubt you started with more idea than them how to reproduce it, and they've had smarter people working full time on it, so you haven't deduced it yourself. So maybe the apsel himself knows, or maybe it can't be replicated. In the case where the apsel knows, you might have more of them already, for bodyguards, or you might've decided against that because vetting and compensating them all is outside your capabilities, or you might not have been able to convince him to tell you; he benefits in some ways from his scarcity."

Permalink Mark Unread

Or she might not have a scalable mind control solution or she might not trust the bindings Cam would give her if she asked for that.

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it can't be replicated, then it's far more important to keep you alive, so that might be the impression you'd prefer to foster. On the other hand, if it can't be replicated than if you are killed there's less motivation to resurrect you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I die all of this will be known to Cheliax," Carissa says blandly. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Known to Hell. It's somewhat different. If I were you, I'd be on another plane, and I'd have some magicless recruit disguised to look like me make all the trips to the Worldwound, and possibly have this conversation, though I do respect your decision to have it yourself; you learn less, in some ways, from merely listening in and passing notes. If you've done that, the likely point of failure is that your apsel, as you observed, is Chaotic Good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have had a little bit of banter about the inevitability of our eventual betrayal."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Go be Chaotic Good, darling. Cheliax can live without your allegiance more easily than without your alliance."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

What.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, grow up. It won't kick you out of Hell, and if it did we'd pick you up again eventually, and you have just declared yourself certified, fled the country, and decided to singlehandedly fix the Worldwound with mountains of presents, you are clearly capable of picking up the spirit. Do you serve Asmodeus?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you really think that your alignment, or for that matter your ultimate fate, features meaningfully among Asmodeus's concerns here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"We work with the allies we are handed, Sevar."

Permalink Mark Unread

This is probably advice to lie more convincingly to Cam. Taken as that it's good advice. 

 

She nods. Slowly. "I, uh, I don't think I really know how to be chaotic good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, what kind of terrible person do you find most personally annoying."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Uh. ...rapists?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"So have your body double and your apsel go around gluing hats to all their heads that say 'don't leave me alone with women or goats, I have no self control'. There. Chaotic Good."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I do know that almost all Chelish people go to Hell no matter how they spend their lives."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am utterly disinterested in your ultimate fate, Sevar. I am giving advice about your ...general approach to this." 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will keep it in mind."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you need help sourcing the body double I know some people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will also keep that in mind."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you survive, perhaps we can speak again in a few days."

Permalink Mark Unread

(Cam is wagging and has been since "picking up the spirit".)

Permalink Mark Unread

She can't say "I'll keep that in mind" a third time, she'll just look like a gibbering idiot. She also can't say nothing at all, that's just looking like a different kind of gibbering idiot. "If I die it'd still be worth your diamond to speak again in a few days, I think," she says.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You could leave some in my desk drawer," she says, and her mirror goes dark.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can she now in fact not hear us? Can she start hearing us again at a moment's notice?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"She can still hear us. I'll stick it in the Bag of Holding and then when it's closed she can't. - or if you have another solution, you can make a soundproof box in unoccupied air on the shuttle."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can make slightly better soundproof material in vacuum, actually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh. I guess - it's vacuum outside the shuttle? You can make it in vacuum, if you prefer."

Permalink Mark Unread

He makes it outside the shuttle, pops the door open, collects it, and boxes the mirror.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

She takes a moment to convince her heart to stop pounding. "Well. That wasn't exactly what I expected but why have the conversation if it's going to be expected, right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"To establish common knowledge? Anyway, I like her. Possibly she has a whole walk-in closet full of skeletons and I will eventually have to stop, but, on a provisional basis. But like I said I'm not committed to Chaos! That just happens to be what I ping at the moment given the history of my life, it's not a philosophical stance."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Asmodeans don't usually go in for necromancy because it stops the soul from reaching Hell - that was idiomatic, wasn't it. Why do you have an idiom for that if you don't have necromancy. I liked her too, I guess. I - I think probably the core of the advice wasn't about chaos, really, but about - getting along with you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, the idea is that somebody murders some folks and then, inexplicably, leaves them in the closet. You'd think this would be conspicuous before they were fully skeletonized, really. I am on board with getting along better though I have to say the hats thing sounds like kind of a waste of time and would only be funny once or twice tops."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't even specifically know anyone who should be hatted. I have had a very lovely life and only get indignant about things on behalf of hypothetical Carissas born in other countries." That is not how to frame that if you're trying to get along with someone Good. "And non-hypothetical other people who actually are born in those countries."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, hypothetical Carissas born in other countries isn't a terrible way to start, builds, like, the foundations of empathy probably, got you as far as women's rights in the general case. What else do all those foreign Carissas need?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...an education, Law, spellsilver. They can take care of themselves after that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool. You wanna pitch me on Law on the way to the moon?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"- yeah. All right. Sounds good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It'll take another hour or so, so calibrate your presentation accordingly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure I have an hour of things to say. I....think that rules and punishments should be applied consistently rather than randomly, and I think criminals should be caught and punished, and I think that people will not randomly do the things that make for a good society and so you have to oblige them, and I think if you fail at those things you'll mostly create societies that are - even more coercive, from more different directions - it's easier to appease one government than a dozen street gangs -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. That's an interesting - angle on it - I guess my preliminary remarks are that I understand punishment's value as a deterrent and as a side effect of preventative measures but I think all by itself without those factors it's just bad, but I don't know if that's a chaotic opinion or a good one in the local sense. Also we have experimental data to the effect that being caught right away with near-certainty is drastically more important than punishment severity, which you can get down to nearly nothing if you're doing well on the other fronts, so there's that. I think a lot of the society-arranging stuff you can do on the level of soft incentives and environmental management even if there needs to be hard law under there - like, people are way less likely to litter if you just have trash cans every thirty feet, you mentioned lead poisoning and there's stuff like that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That all seems fine, I am not particularly attached to torturing people as punishment if something else works just as well - though it seems kind of unlikely that really minor punishments would, say, deter someone from murdering someone, if they really wanted to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I'm calibrating 'really minor' to what I'm guessing about your likely standards based on what I saw of your educational system, I don't mean you put them in a hat that says 'don't leave me around mortals, I have no self-control'. You can put them in three years of rehabilitative detainment and then parole and if they don't show up to parole then you lock them up over the weekend."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That seems like it'd depend an awful lot on how good your rehabilitative detainment was but obviously getting the correcting over with faster is desirable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Also the rehabilitative detainment cannot be staffed by people who think criminals deserve to be harmed, it really fucks with their professionalism something awful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, you can mindread them every week and fire everyone who has the wrong attitudes for the job."

Permalink Mark Unread

"As someone with a lead-lined skull, I feel this would constitute an overreach of employer discretion."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...why? If it's important to the thing working?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm presuming that mindreading people isn't considered a hallmark of Evil but if I were Pharasma it would be, it's a horrifying invasion of privacy! You can screen your staff other ways. Background checks, good anonymous complaint system for the inmates, probing intake interviews, thoughtful design of workplace culture."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Why are you against....invasions of privacy?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"All the hypothetical Cams out there need theirs."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

She does not understand at all. "You mean, they want to deceive everyone around them and you think society ought to be set up so they can?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, they need - space to think without worrying about anything but how their own thoughts fit together, before they process it for public consumption. I actually don't like lying and avoid it unless it's particularly necessary for some reason."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Gods can read peoples' minds any time, is that different because they're gods?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, not at all, I object to this enormously and am retaining my mental stability mostly by hoping real hard that they are not in fact doing that."

Permalink Mark Unread

She's so baffled. "If people have a bunch of magic items for reading - twitches in your face - and can guess your thoughts from that, is that any different?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I do actually feel different about that - I mean, depends how magic, but if they don't in principle outperform people who have studied microexpressions, I can at least in moments of particular alarm stick a bag on my head."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So do you just need to have the option of making people stop or is it bad for them to be doing ever? What if it's lower-resolution, like, there's a spell that detects someone's deepest desire..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lower-resolution might be fine! I'm real curious about what my deepest desire would look like to that spell, I'm not freaked out by alignment detection magic, etcetera. I just find it very important to be able to think without an audience. I don't object in principle to consensual mind-reading, though I cannot imagine it being to my taste under any reasonable circumstances."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it like...if there's an audience then you'll end up sculpting your thoughts for them and you're very interested in what shape they grow in if you refuse to do any trimming them?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think that's probably what it cashes out to ultimately, but in fact I expect if I were aware of being mindread for more than a few seconds I'd pretty quickly run out of cope for that and mostly just be thinking 'AAAAAAAH' rather than anything more tailored."

Permalink Mark Unread

" - huh! Do you feel like - it is a skill you could have learned, if you'd grown up in Cheliax, or just all your thoughts wilt on inspection and couldn't figure out how to do otherwise? Do you think it's a Good thing or a Chaotic thing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"There isn't mindreading in my home universe! Or alignments! So I don't know on either count."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Well, I don't think of sculpting my thoughts for other people as different from sculpting my actions for them, it's just often easier to do on the thought-level. I don't know what they'd grow in like unpruned but unless that thing where we turn out to be apsels if we summon them happens, it doesn't really matter."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess that is a reasonable, uh, survival strategy, for you to have become accustomed to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I haven't got any reason to think the unpruned thing would be better. Most plants grow best pruned."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Human beings are animals, not plants, and if you keep those in small cages they go nuts."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't actually know very much about animals but I think one trains them, rather than letting them run wild peeing everywhere."

Permalink Mark Unread

"One does if one wants to keep them as pets. I don't consider myself a pet and don't aspire to be one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Seems better than being a wild animal and getting eaten. Worse than being an apsel, admittedly, but most people cannot be an apsel."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, a majority of dead summoners are movers instead, but those are still pretty cool - they build their cities like this, look -" Aerial footage of Elfame.

Permalink Mark Unread

"That does also look cool but I meant that most Chelish people go to be pets of some god or another."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, and I think that's bad. Actually, eating animals is also very unpopular where I'm from."

Permalink Mark Unread

It is time for her to be baffled again. "Because they've invented tastier things?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, the change was tied up in a bow very neatly once they had widespread summoning and we could just make them meat that didn't involve killing anything and these days they also have meat growing machines, but even before that many people chose to avoid meat or even all animal products on animal welfare grounds. It may be relevant here that there was a period between vat meat and your tech level where they invented some stunningly nasty things to do to animals in the name of getting them to efficiently yield delicious protein. I was not in life personally a vegetarian but I respect their conviction and now it is absolutely costless for me to go with the zeitgeist there."

Permalink Mark Unread

None of this feels like it makes her less confused, at all, about anything. The question she is tempted to ask is 'why did you volunteer this information and what bearing does it have on our conversation' but that will make her look like an idiot, and rude besides -

"That's...Good of them?" she attempts uncertainly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of the vegetarians who actually gave something up, sure, you could probably classify it that way. Of the regular people who wouldn't have been vegetarians in 1995 but also wouldn't buy artisanal hobby-farm chicken breast that once ate bugs and had a chicken best friend in 2179... I think they're responding to the environmental incentives I mentioned before! I want to end scarcity, I want everyone to be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams, and one of the things that winds up meaning is that they can buy never eating anything that used to be an animal for negative forty-eight Martian creds a pound. Because artisanal hobby-farm chicken breast that once ate bugs and had a chicken best friend is very expensive. And it tastes worse."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think maybe I am missing some kind of intuition about - why this is a good example of environmental incentives, or different from other products getting cheaper. ...I am in favor of products getting cheaper, just, I feel like you didn't say all that just to say that meat is cheaper -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Normal people who are like kind of trying but not trying really hard at this specific thing will buy chocolate made with cocoa beans that were picked in foreign countries by slave labor. I did this myself when I was alive, it was actually very hard to avoid everything in this class because of how the global economy at the time worked and that wasn't a tradeoff on my radar. When the price of chocolate drops, drops a lot, becomes almost entirely the cost of shipping and marketing, can be generated ex nihilo in arbitrary mountains and varieties by summoning an apsel and escorting them to the nearest cultural festival for a few hours in exchange, then virtually everybody will buy slave-labor-free chocolate, it is no longer economically viable to keep cocoa-harvesting slaves, and all the slaves go free and can also afford to eat chocolate every day. This doesn't necessarily say anything very impressive about the character of non-slave-chocolate-eating people who would have been eating slave-chocolate before. They haven't gotten better in any interesting metaphysical sense. But the slaves are still free."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And you - like that outcome?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do! I derive enormous personal satisfaction from how many slaves there aren't because of my ending material scarcity on Earth. Among other delightful consequences." Wag wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

"When you say you ended material scarcity on Earth, what do you mean, aren't there lots of apsels there?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Summoning was not widely known. I publicized it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Cool. Why wasn't it widely known? How'd you learn it? Was that illegal?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The handful of people who did know about it didn't have strong incentives to publicize it when they could just use it in private and get positional advantage from that. The governments of the world were not among the informed agents, so there weren't laws on the subject per se. I found a book in an abandoned house I was exploring for fun."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess if I could've avoided anyone finding out I would've done that, at least for a couple years while I built up contingency plans for not dying. ...if people don't have magic what do they trade apsels for making all their food and so on?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Apsels are hard to pay in material objects - that will be easier here since you have magic ones - but some of them want media recommendations, or to do tourism on Earth, or just to do something with more of an impact on the world than kicking around back home. Also some of them want sexual favors or to pretend to take people's souls - we can't actually do that but the humans think we can and often don't let us talk, or they think we're motivated to lie, so it's hard to set the record straight. Changers are easier to pay and are not quite as efficient at making food but they can still do it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- in what sense can't you take peoples' souls, does them selling you their souls just not affect their afterlife at all?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It does not affect their afterlife at all, they become a daeva if they summoned and go to Limbo if they didn't. They can sell their soul forty times and we can't even tell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. - where'd they get the idea that you can sell your soul, do they sometimes accidentally get actual devils -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not that I know of but I suppose it might have happened once or something. There's - they don't have gods like you do but they do have religions, just without real gods to have them about, and some of the corresponding mythology gives apsels a bad rap including the soul thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They have religions without gods? Like, they're trying to make a god? If there aren't any gods how did they even know that's a thing you can do?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They're not trying to make one, they - this is very weird to explain, I'll have you know - human psychology likes to attribute phenomena to agents. Without any agents responsible for, like, sunrises, thunderstorms, earthquakes, diseases, what have you, they made some up, and tried to engage with reality on that level in addition to all the ones that actually work, and sometimes by coincidence if you beg your imaginary rain god for rain it will rain and then you go 'yay it worked thank you rain god' and if it doesn't you can still go 'the rain god must be mad, let's sacrifice a sheep to him and see if that helps'. And all these fantasies accumulate cultural cruft over a very very long period of time so it's far more complicated than that now."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"- it's honestly very weird that there are free-will-having humans somewhere with no gods. How did they start. Were there originally very negligent gods that then got bored and left. - I guess you said already no one's claimed credit for - for the whole setup -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They evolved! There's a fossil record and everything. Sort of like animal breeding only the breeder is 'the world'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why would the world give them free will."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know what else they'd have."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So outsiders - devils and demons and angels and so on - they aren't broken in the way humans are. They - are the thing they are all the way through, instead of being full of conflicting impulses. There's a real answer to the question 'what do you want' and 'what are your priorities', instead of the way with humans we want lots of things some of which contradict and some of which we don't do even though we want them. And in Golarion this is because there was a particularly -" stupid, but Ihys was Chaotic Good so she shouldn't say that - "idealistic god who gave humans free will and made them less useful to gods and less like outsiders and less like - agents, less the kind of entity that acts on its desires in the world - for some reason - but I can't see why else it'd be the case, aside from someone doing it on purpose."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, humans on Earth evolved from animals. Would you say animals are agentic?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"....I haven't paid any very much attention, honestly. I assume they - eat and drink and run away from predators?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, and chase their tails, and play, and have social drama, and get emotional and frustrated over stuff. Humans specifically evolved from apes, would you like a book on apes? It'll be in an Earth language but you can do magic about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe but I am not clear what I would get from the book on apes? Do you think they have free will as well?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not familiar with the concept as you use it! Earth philosophers sometimes talk about free will in contrast to, say, being physically deterministic such that all the preconditions determining what actions you would take were set long before you were born, but that seems like a different thing. I have never met an outsider unless you count being briefly horrified at the demon eviscerating your classmate. It might be interesting to see what your assessment is of a study on chimpanzees on the subject but you certainly don't have to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Whether there's prophecy or not is a separate thing, and a feature of worlds not people I think - there's not prophecy, here. Maybe I'll look into it but - probably not right away unless it seems particularly important for our being allies?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably not. Though I'm curious how - admiring agency - dovetails with the ideal of serving Asmodeus. Couldn't he just have some unagentic robots that didn't want things?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, He's supposed to! Free will was a terrible idea and it'd be better if humans were just constructs that serve Asmodeus, that's how He had us originally. And then Ihys gave us free will and we ran around doing stupid shit. Agency is - important - which is why you don't inflict it on every random thing around."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So you don't aspire to be an agent?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if I could be a god, that would be neat for me. I don't - expect that it serves any gods for me to be an agent, except insofar as they can benefit from resulting mistakes I make."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...your religious beliefs confuse me very much. I'm used to people who think that they ought to actually agree with their gods."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- I mean, on factual questions, if we disagree, they're probably right and I'm probably wrong, because they are far more intelligent than me. But lots of questions in life are perspectived. think that I ought to get to do whatever I want but no one else is going to find my argument for that, which is pretty much just 'it would serve my interests', compelling. Gods think they ought to get to do whatever they want and I can form an opinion on that if I want to but it's sort of pathetic, right, to imagine that they care at all what I think, or that what I think matters enough I should bother thinking on it. What Asmodeus thinks I should be shaped like matters, because He probably has remit over my immortal soul. What I think I should be shaped like doesn't, because I don't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...so you might as well do whatever you want for now and then Asmodeus will do whatever he feels like no matter what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think that's sort of what the paraduchess was saying. Or, that I might as well do whatever achieves my goals for this life. That is not exactly the conventional wisdom, which is that practicing the disciplines Asmodeus requires of us in Hell makes the transition easier, makes it - less lossy - which I care about, I want to mostly be compatible with what Asmodeus needs so I require less trimming to get there. And it seems probable that if more of me fits then there's more of me left afterwards and I'll be a smarter more interesting devil, which I care about."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Isn't that just doing your own trimming in advance?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. Like, if Asmodeus wants trees shaped like so -" she gestures - "and you grow all over the place in life, then most of your growth is concentrated on branches that'll just get chopped. But if you've been trimming yourself since you were very small, then almost all your growth is in useful places, and you'll get to keep it. - it's prideful to get too convinced you won't need much trimming. But still, there are differences in how much people need and how well they turn out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...that's so fascinatingly horrific. Also you're still not a plant."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but humans aren't very good at thinking about this sort of thing and have to resort to analogies."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some analogies can sound insightful but fail to reflect the ground reality of the situation." He shrugs. He flips the screen to display the approaching moon.

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh that's cool. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Isn't it just!

"I have persistent permission to make air but if you think I might forget while I'm doing afterlife statistics I can make you a spacesuit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Next time we're in a city I should get a necklace of adaptation. I guess in the meantime I'll wear a - space suit, assuming that's a kind of nonmagical necklace of adaptation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know what the necklaces are rated for but a spacesuit will keep the air in and filter it like the shuttle does. While being movable-in. I can appear it on you or you put it on, what's your preference?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll put it on. The necklace'll do - space is specifically one of the things you can do with it - it just creates air around you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooh, snazzy. You have to let me make the spacesuit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can make a spacesuit."

Permalink Mark Unread

He makes a spacesuit in her size. "You might, if you aren't that worried I'll forget to make air, leave the helmet off so we can talk and you can scratch your nose and such until and unless such time as air stops happening. Or I can make little transmitters to carry our voices sort of like the magic mirror. I did want to do the afterlife forensic stats thing as long as we're here, if you'd give the say-so? I can do it in sand and, say, glass jars, plus I'll want a scale." Of course, this project has already been done in Hell, but since he wants to let her see it for herself he will do it over. Also he knows what the best way to do this is.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure. I think petitioners are different sizes in different afterlives, which you'd think would change the weighings."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can do absolute size instead of a consistent scale."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can make sand grains and glass jars and a scale."

Permalink Mark Unread

So Cam touches down on the moon and opens the door, surrounding them with air. And does a great big 9-by-many chart of petitioner population at various times. Hops around, tumbling occasionally into the moon dust, weighing each and taking notes. He compiles them into a graph.

Permalink Mark Unread

Across Good-Evil and also Law-Chaos, about 40% of people are neutral, which produces a distribution weighted strongly towards the center, which is then countered by the fact Pharasma kicks people out of her afterlife in all directions on the thinnest of excuses. The afterlives neutral along at least one axis have the most after that, except Abaddon.

The Abyss and Hell have more than Elysium or Heaven, but only about ten percent each.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam diligently presents his graph to Carissa at the end. "Looks like Good is winning by a little bit, not by individual afterlives head-to-head because of that Abbadon setup, but by total good versus total evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That doesn't make any sense."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What, aggregating them like that? I mean, maybe Evil's winning a lot of folks and the Abyss just eats a bunch of them so they don't accumulate."

Permalink Mark Unread

She winces. "I mean. Maybe. But - most people aren't Good, it's really hard to be Good, even Good priests tend to agree on that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe lots of these are coming through the Boneyard? It does look like it doesn't hang on to people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've heard that, yeah. That's also why infanticide is Evil, Pharasma doesn't like it when people are Neutral."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pharasma's philosophy is very strange to me. Does it seem likely that it's not too hard to be Good in the Boneyard?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess there's lots of babies running around so if you, you know, care for the babies, that's probably Good?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...surely many living people care for babies. I guess maybe it's more Good if you adopt them?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, it has to be altruistic, if you just like your babies and want them to turn out well I don't think you get any Good for that. But if you're like 'ah, poor suffering orphans, I shall save them' - Good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Does Pharasma publish a rubric or something, I haven't run across one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. But, like, murder's Evil, infanticide's Evil, abortion's Evil, torture's Evil, devoting your life to serving the poor or the sick is Good, fighting Good is Evil and fighting Evil is Good, and most stuff you do in the course of trying to achieve life goals is at least a little Evil, enough it adds up if you're not serving the poor or the sick. Maybe that's less true in the Boneyard since there's not much scope for ambition."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. I feel like I'd benefit from talking to more broadly educated people on this but it's not super urgent. How long would you like to stay on the moon?" He's taking photos now.

Permalink Mark Unread

She’s staring at the sand grains. “You could be lying to me, of course.”

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I don't think the binding prevents that at all. There are ways to restrict summoned daeva to being truthful, but it involves complicated finagling around concepts of task-relevance and shit like that which I assume you will identify as tricksy and suspicious if I try to explain it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

“Seems like if you’re lying in the first place you can probably lie about those too. There are spells, of course, but - not wizard ones.”

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are there magic items about it? Not here on the moon, presumably, but we could go back down and shop some more and you could wave a magic item of it at me and I could tell you that as far as I know the piles are accurate representations of the thing I said I was conjuring for modulo concerns about how my powers interact with other magic and stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I bet there's a bunch of loopholes in that. But I'll - try to figure out a phrasing that wouldn't have a bunch of loopholes.

 

It - you have to be lying because if actually Hell is weak, and built on lies, they'd know that, and they'd have just had me killed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do they kill everyone they might have an interest in killing? I think a lot of people are alive I wouldn't expect on that model."

Permalink Mark Unread

" - well, I'm sure they can't get everyone, but they could get me. I'm not - the latest emperor of Galt, or Felandriel Morgethai, or something well-defended -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're on the moon," he points out. "And before that you were traveling very fast in a conveyance unknown to Chelish agents. Also they did try having whatsherface talk to you about being Chaotic Good with me, maybe they can't make that square with assassination attempts if it's a coordinated strategy?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"- maybe. Or maybe they told me to be Chaotic Good because Chaotic Good is weak and stupid - 

- can you spy on them, with your little figures, or does that get sight and not sound?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It gets sight and not sound unless you do ridiculously elaborate things I have no expertise with. Or plant objects near them. I kind of expect that they don't go around saying 'pity we're so weak and pathetic and unable to kill people we want dead' even in private meetings? That would be weird even for very paradigmatically weak and pathetic sorts of people."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"They'd be discussing whether they want to spend a Wish on it; because that's probably what it'd take, if I were on the Moon.

 

- I'm being an idiot, aren't I. You can get their - correspondence, their contracts with Hell -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, if you can specify it enough, would that be informative to the question at hand?"

Permalink Mark Unread

....some things that you are very much not allowed to think, in Cheliax, some things that are very dangerous to think if you might die soon -

 

If Hell is in fact the losing side, then she isn't on it. And if anyone knows that about her, then they will probably want to do something about it and she can't assume it'll take them very long.


If Hell is in fact the winning side, then checking if it was the losing side is a very dangerous thing to do.

"You realize that lying to me about this won't work for very long and won't get me to do - whatever it is you want me to do -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I hadn't especially considered it in those terms enough to realize that, but okay?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What happens to you if I die."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I go home."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you want that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No! That would lose me all opportunity to do stuff here! Home is boring and I have had all the boring I could stomach for the last century and a half."

Permalink Mark Unread

" - as far as ways of being Chaotic Good go, I can work with that one. All right. I want to - buy a favor from someone very powerful without getting mind controlled or murdered, and figure out if you're lying to me, and I'm going to assume you are lying to me until proven otherwise because I'm probably going to die, here. Can you drop a message on someone from this far away?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Depends on how exact you need it to land. If they'll get anything within a range of a couple blocks without being undesirably intercepted, sure, if you need it droned in through the window the time delay on drone feedback would be prohibitive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- a couple blocks probably won't do, I imagine we have spies in her academy." Pause. "We have spies everywhere, because Hell is rich and powerful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess arguably you might count as a spy covering the moon right now but I don't see any other candidates."

Permalink Mark Unread

" - could be they're invisible." She's being silly. There's no reason to think Cheliax has spies on the Moon. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess. HELLO INVISIBLE CHELISH SPIES! I MADE SOME PILES OF SAND! I HOPE THIS HAS LIVENED UP YOUR OTHERWISE INTOLERABLY BORING DAY!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably they're petrified conscious or something and have a Telepathic Bond they report through and you very much improved their boring day. Maybe if we set up a base on the Moon they'll be our greatest supporters." 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Now I'm tempted to leave a 'greatest hits of the silent film era' marathon playing but I don't see how I'd aim it at them in the right direction."

Permalink Mark Unread

She can't tell if he's toying with her or if he genuinely wants to further earn the goodwill of the hypothetical Chelish spies. Possibly both at the same time. 

 

"Well, I think it's better if they think that nothing entertaining will happen unless we win; then they'll be motivated to help us.

I want to leave a note for Felandriel Morgethai. You'll like her, she's Chaotic Good too. - I don't know anything else about her."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it's not a bad start, at least. Is she just the most famous Chaotic Good person you've heard of, why are we contacting this lady you know nothing else about?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"She's a ninth circle wizard and could sell me a Mind Blank, after which assassinating me would be seriously inconvenient if I stay off the planet. And she's someone Cheliax wants dead, so if I were to decide you're not lying I'd have some questions for her.

I know you're lying, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know when I'm firmly aware someone's lying to me I make sure to remind them of this every thirty seconds, yeah. She lives in a school? Do you know where in the school, or what she looks like, or is the plan just to dump a letter on whoever's wearing the most magic swag?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know where she is or what she looks like. You can conjure for that, though, right? If we got within a couple thousand miles could you do the drop without getting closer?"

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"Assuming she's outside or something, yeah, I can't see through buildings." Does that count as permission to make a li'l Felandriel Morgethai?

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....yes but she seems to be presently too magical or nonexistent to conjure.

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"- can't conjure her, presumably for magic reasons. Would there be a decent portrait anywhere?"

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" - probably somewhere in her school there's a portrait. You may try to conjure portraits of her, if you want."

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Cam will take some stabs at portraiture in her school.

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Felandriel Morgethai: a half-elven woman with hair so black it's nearly violet, streaked through with silver, in riotous curls. She's wearing what looks a bit like a fitted suit, silk and trimmed with vines and live flowers. There's a pseudodragon perched on her shoulder.

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"Oh, I like her style! Assuming she still looks like this more or less I should be able to identify her from the shuttle quite high up, just not all the way from the moon."

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"I thought you'd like her. I think if we stay away from the planet we are relatively safe."

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"Alrighty. Are you done passing secret correspondence to your petrified moon agents or do you want to hang out on the moon a little longer, jump around, look at stars?"

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" - maybe once I have paid Felandriel Morgethai for a Mind Blank. You said you did your skull in lead; would it in principle - I'm not giving permission -- be possible for you to also do that to mine?"

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"I thought you knew about lead poisoning! You'd go stark raving mad! I guess I could layer it but it's not an area with a lot of prior art, I'm not sure what the right way to go about it would be. Is lead all that works or do other dense materials do the trick, do you know?"

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"Well, I thought you'd go stark raving mad and you seem only as mad as you started, so I thought perhaps the problems are overstated!! I...would expect other dense metals would work, but I don't want to be the test case for that" and you'll presumably be very upset if I propose buying someone to be a test case.

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"I am indestructible and this is convenient on points such as lead poisoning and all kinds of cute little perks like that. You are not, as of this time, indestructible. Lead poisoning is very very real and it will harm you. Would you like a leaded hat?"

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"Will it make me go mad?"

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"No, I can surround the lead in something and it's much easier to tell if a hat has suffered some kind of structural damage than if a skull lining has, plus lead isn't going to give off fumes or seep through your hair, it's not mercury."

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" - I've really got to get that truth spell. Not now, maybe later, in the meantime I'll just stay in the shuttle which hasn't driven me mad." 

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"Sounds like a plan." He moonhops over to the shuttle.

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Meanwhile, on a demiplane adjacent to Golarion, upon a cushioned throne in the midst of unparalleled luxuries, Razmir, Living God of Razmiran, survivor of a lost age, possessor of techniques lost even to the elder races, greatest archmage in Avistan when he happens to be in Avistan yes even when Felandriel Morgethai also happens to be in Avistan - is staring at a potato.

This potato displeases him. It appears, so far as he can tell, to be an ordinary potato in almost every way, which is really quite bizarre, since according to his truly extraordinary magical senses it is: Not magical in the slightest, before or after false auras have been dispelled. Of a species of potato that did not exist in the world yesterday. And precisely identical down to the molecular level to the other potato he stole.

The note around the potato, read of course through Comprehend Languages, is worse.

To whom it may concern:

I am limited in my communication options at this time and hope this makes its way to the right people, whoever they may be. I am an unprecedented variety of outsider called an apsel with the ability to make persistent arbitrary material objects at a nearly unlimited rate, including those inspired by a technological level much higher than that achieved on Golarion, including spellsilver and diamonds. I have been summoned and am somewhat constrained by a Chelish wizard who is mostly willing to cooperate with me towards shared ends such as addressing the Worldwound but I hope to orient myself to the situation enough to accomplish more than that. I can receive any correspondence marked 'letter to Cam' advising me further on things I should read, places I should go, lines of argument I should try on my summoner, &c. On the advice of Kofusachi, who I successfully reached briefly via prayer, I have sent copies of this letter to you in Vigil and also to Sothis. I await replies from whoever fields this sort of thing there.

Sincerely, Cam

This might, in fact, be something that gives the Living God hope, except that Apsels are bullshit. They don't exist. They have never existed. Yes, yes, 'unprecedented,' Lissala's ascendant ass, Razmir is the most learned person to visit Golarion since the death of Aroden, and in the opinion of Razmir, this entire potato thing is bullshit.

On the other hand.

This is a note written by someone with the power to create two molecularly identical nonmagical potatoes.

Razmir hates casting Vision, but nonetheless, he does leave seventh-circle slots free, for this purpose among others. He prepares the spell, does his customary animal sacrifice (a rat), returns to his comfiest chair, and, armed with nothing except the knowledge that some pain-in-his-neck named Cam wrote this note and made these potatoes, attempts to directly suck all legends of Cam directly into his perpetually-dissatisfied brain.

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Visions of steel cities rising out of a desert - moons where there were no moons, a steel capsule accelerating - 

- A woman in strange dress on a flickering screen like a scrying mirror, sketching a circle with chalk on a street below - a creature flickering into existence - 

- A bitter old man drawing a circle, and superimposed over his body is a black-armored figure with draping wings - and one more and ten more and a thousand more - a steel colossus roaring flame from its base and then ten thousand more - pages turning and a book drawn - 

All to the sound of violin music.

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OW.

Razmir is EXHAUSTED.

He taps himself with a Wand of Lesser Restoration. That helps.

... All right, fine. Razmir is not just made out of spite over the state of the universe. There's also some naked greed, in there. (Out of all the gods of Good, it is Kofusachi with whom he is most aligned.)

Time to start writing.

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Cam is piloting the shuttle down from the moon to the general ballpark of Felandriel Morgethai and also listening to the Atriama soundtrack (2108 production) but he does find time to conjure for his mail on the way.

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Letter to Cam:

Greetings, fellow person from a functioning civilization, trapped in a world of perpetually warring, perpetually starving imbeciles bent on destroying themselves as quickly as possible and causing as much collateral damage as they can before they go!

I am Razmir, living god of Razmiran and ninth-circle archmage, and I am interested in engaging in a mutually beneficial exchange of unmatched arcane power for vast quantities of arbitrary persistent material items suitable to bring massive luxury, prosperity, and immortality to myself and my realm. As every other sane person in Golarion does, I desire vast quantities of material objects; unlike almost every other sane person in Golarion, I can provide ninth-circle wizardry, terrifyingly powerful magical items, and practical protection against attempts to destroy you or your wizard in exchange for it. As I am Lawful, I keep deals I agree to, and as My domain is luxury, I share Kofusachi's interest in enriching this universe, if admittedly chiefly so that I can enrich myself.

Further communications can be directed by sending to or creation of potato-wrapped notes in the pocket of Myself or, should you prefer, Telriana Lebethron, the chief Good person in my employ.

Razmir, Living God of Razmiran, Sovereign of Melcat, Thorvyn, Gifhorn and Kodrigrad, Ascendant of the Thirty-First Step.

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Holy shit, this is so high fantasy novel and Cam is wagging slightly uncontrollably about it. It was pretty high fantasy novel already but god-kings sending him trade offers is much moreso than just taking a shuttle to the moon which is very pedestrian.

Hellish research auxiliaries, what've we got on Razmir(an)?

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They're pretty sure he's not a god, for one thing. No one outside his country thinks he's a god. In his country it's illegal to say he isn't a god. His country seems...bad, in their very preliminary investigation, most writing about it is from people in Galt debating whether to conquer it or people in Cheliax debating whether to provoke Galt into trying conquering it but it seems to have been tremendously mismanaged in every respect, to have a shrinking population, to be run on fear and tyranny, etcetera etcetera.

 

Razmir himself...seems to be very old? Some of these writings date back thousands of years? Ten thousand years ago he wrote...grocery lists, and filled out paperwork, and that's pretty much it, and then he did nothing for ten thousand years, and then starting somewhat recently there's lots more written material in the increasingly grandiose style of the sort of person who might declare themselves a god while not actually being a god.

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Carissa notices the wagging but does not say anything about it. 

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He will ask her what her feelings about Razmir(an) are after she has been Mind Blanked. Can they conjure for what he was doing while he did nothing? Was he frozen in a glacier or turned to stone or what?

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He was totally unmoving in some kind of presumably magical tube thingy? (Conjuring it required replacing bits of it that didn't conjure with plastic.) He didn't seem to age while he was in it, but did at a large fraction of the normal human rate both before and afterwards.

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Huh. How'd he get in and out of it?

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In: Someone put him in while he was unconscious.

Out: The magic apparently just stopped working, nobody's figured out why. (Leading theories are "ran out of batteries" and one demon who insists that an earthquake around that time caused it.)

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Gosh. What an interesting backstory this god-king has.

Mind Blank first. "We're nearly close enough for me to drone a message to Ms. Morgethai," he tells Carissa.

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She nods tensely. This means they're also nearly close enough for people to get to them.

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"What do you want to write her?"

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"This is Carissa Sevar. I'm a fourth-circle wizard who unexpectedly acquired an extremely powerful summons who can make spell components at will. I'll pay you for Mind Blank, right now and probably regularly, and if I don't die I think I can close the Worldwound inside five years. I don't control him, and if you Dominate me he has instructions to give Cheliax the diamonds to burn Andoran to the ground. 

If you're interested go to the moon, we'll meet you there."

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"You want to go all the way back to the moon? Also it's an entire moon, how do you propose to narrow it down?"

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"Won't you be able to find her with conjuring? And I want to be on the Moon so it's harder to kill me!"

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"I guess if you want me to binary search the moon I can find her that way, fine." He writes up the letter and displays it on the screen in case she wants to make any last-minute changes. "You have to let me make the drone, it'll be just like the mirror one."

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"You can make a drone identical to the drone you made earlier."

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He "prints" the note and gives it to the drone and turns it loose, piloting it in a search pattern to find Felandriel Morgethai.

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"And now we go back to the Moon?"

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"Only once I've dropped off the note and given the drone its final instructions, I can't pilot it from farther away and still avoid bumping into people." Felaaaandriel, come out come out wherever you are.

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Felandriel Morgethai is in her office, which is not technically on this plane, though it has a door to an antechamber that is!

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"This look good enough to you?" Cam asks, when he's found the door with her name on it.

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" - probably whatever gets dropped there gets to her, yeah."

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The drone deposits the note, he pilots it out a window, and has it go up high and self-destruct. They are en route to the moon a moment after it begins ascending.

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No one has murdered them yet! This really suggests that the lead casing is effective against scries, but she is nonetheless eager to get to the Moon and keep the not-being-murdered up.

 

"Thank you," she says to Cam, because saying that is free and Chaotic Good people like it.

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"You're welcome!" ...

Okay he doesn't really want to wait till Felandriel Morgethai shows up or maybe even doesn't show up to ask about the thing.

"Hey, do you have an opinion on Razmir?"

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"....why do you ask?"

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"Based on my reading it sounds like he is running another Lawful Evil country, I don't know if there's a party line or if you've barely heard of the place or what."

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"- I don't know all that much about him, except that he's not actually a god and doesn't like it when people know that. He doesn't help at the Worldwound. Lawful means he'd keep a deal, if he made us one, but I'm probably not smart enough to make a deal with him that I'd like the results of him keeping. I think he'd lose in a fight with Cheliax.

 

What reading."

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"You do remember when you gave me permission to conjure stuff for machine translation to work on, right? I can also read it when I do that."

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- she nods. "Well. Morgethai's a much safer ninth circle caster to have knowing that we exist."

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"Even though she's not Lawful? In fact, literally the opposite of your alignment?"

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"Like you, she will probably tediously attempt to redeem me. She reasonably likely won't transport us both to a plane outside time, Feeblemind us, figure out which magic works on you eventually if one is a ninth circle wizard about it, extract a million diamonds from you, use them to take over the world, and leave us that way for a thousand years.

- she might. But I think she's least likely, of all the people I could ask."

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"Huh. But, you're pretty sure Razmir is actually just a dude, not a god?"

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"Yes. Asmodeus wouldn't allow a Lawful Evil god who didn't answer to Him, and a real god wouldn't be hanging around in Razmiran."

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"So the 'god of luxury' thing probably just means the dude version of that where he wants to lounge on a silk divan and be fed peeled grapes or something, and not a complicated god-concept? Sounds, uh, bribable."

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" - if we had a way to negotiate safely, yes. But he's not going to trade fairly just because he can get everything he wants that way."

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"Yeah, I'm just curious if there's a gold standard for safely negotiating with a Lawful Evil dude, I thought possibly you'd know. Could also try asking Ms. Morgethai."

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"He'll keep his word, if he gives it, but he's smarter than us and so he can think of lots of ways to technically not break it. Maybe if you - conjure contracts between him and various powerful people in his service - or the Chelish equivalent - we could use those - but trying to draw up your own contract from scratch with a Lawful Evil ninth circle wizard far smarter than you definitely always ends with you enslaved at best."

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"Ooh, cribbing from past contracts is a good idea, at least where the outcomes are verifiable." He will put this in the open letter to Hell surreptitiously. "Seems like a disadvantage of being evil, if someone who can give you everything you want down to the peeled grapes comes along and won't get anywhere near you because of how you are known to suck, especially if not even being Lawful gets you out of the consequences of that reputation."

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"Right, but an advantage he has over Morgethai is that if he finds out we exists he can just enslave us, whereas she's - probably - I'm counting on it - going to be too principled."

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"I'm not sure that's an advantage? Like, I will also give her peeled grapes if she wants them."

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"But not a million diamonds with which to take over the world."

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"I doubt you'd give me permission to give her all those diamonds!"

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"I don't know!! I'd consider it, if it were an element of a plan where I don't die despite being wildly in over my head! She'll kill everyone I've ever known or cared about, probably, but I'm not feeling like I definitely have enough of a handle on matters to object to that."

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"Wow, you can't get more finesse than that with enough diamonds?"

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" - you probably can, but why would she bother?"

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"'Cause she's Good? I don't know how goodness is assigned around here but I think if you can simply not kill people and you do anyway it's weird to call you Good."

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"I think if you're Good you're allowed to kill Evil people. There wouldn't be an entire Good god of destroying Evil otherwise."

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"Well, we could ask her if she'd not-kill people just for being Evil as a condition of taking the diamonds but perhaps you're about to tell me she's too Chaotic."

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"Indeed. She might agree to that but there'd be no real reason to trust she meant it."

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"Well, we could try talking to somebody who's both Lawful and Good, after you're Mind Blanked? Safe to negotiate with and trustworthy!"

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"I don't think they even have anyone who can protect me right now, but - yeah, for their many deficiencies paladins in fact won't enslave you and if they promise not to kill your friends they won't."

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"And they'll probably have a read on how to talk to evil people and which chaotic ones are chill, if they're any good at their jobs."

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"I think the world would look pretty different if any paladins were good at their jobs."

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"How disappointing. They do have a lot of opposition to deal with, of course."

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They fly on. 

 

 

 

There aren't, actually, all that many forces in Golarion that could bother them. Greater Teleport doesn't even reach that far. Two Plane Shifts would, if you knew your destination, which you'd have a hard time with because scrying sensors can't see through lead.

Razmir, who has politely written a note; Felandriel Morgethai, who has just received one and is in consultation with Lastwall; Geb, who isn't paying attention; Nex, who is even less paying attention -

 

- and Aspexia Rugatonn, who is paying attention, knows she has a problem, and knows that the problem could conceivably be an existential threat to the interests of Cheliax and Hell's interests on Golarion. And who could Gate with an army directly to Carissa, or pull Carissa through such a Gate, or use a Wish to kidnap her.

Why isn't she doing anything? 

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"- which I think lends us a strong presumption that she is actively operating at the Worldwound," says Neeshaan el-Naderi, sixth circle priest of Abadar and director of the church's Worldwound treaty arbitration committee. "Which presumption is rebuttable with evidence she is actively doing something not pursuant to the attested goal of closing the Worldwound."

 

The Church of Abadar has received notice of events. They are very excited about events. They very dearly do not want Carissa murdered and Cam banished. They think the salvation of the world might depend on it. 

 

If you think that, as a result of this set of beliefs, Neeshaan el-Naderi would be even slightly inclined to arbitrate Aspexia Rugatonn's "can I murder/Dominate Carissa Sevar if I do it this way?" questions in an unfair fashion biased in favor of Carissa Sevar and Cam, you would be badly misunderstanding him. He would like Carissa Sevar and Cam to survive, and he would absolutely never contemplate stretching the Worldwound treaty in order to accomplish that. 

Luckily for them it's really just a straightfoward reading of the treaty. Carissa Sevar has served at the Worldwound for most of a decade. She said she intends to close the Worldwound and is going to be taking actions pursuant to that. Then she - zipped off in a very fast moving object, which actually counts in her favor, because the treaty mostly covers people at the Worldwound, but it does also cover people operating at the Worldwound while acting pursuant to their Worldwound-related goals, and it sure looks like Carissa Sevar and Cam are operating at the Worldwound while residing somewhere else, like powerful wizards do, and that means they're still protected when somewhere else if they are acting pursuant to their Worldwound-related goals, like a powerful wizard would be while, say, escorting supplies to the Worldwound, or preparing spells for a fight at the Worldwound. 

If Aspexia Rugatonn had reason to think that Carissa Sevar and Cam are not acting pursuant to their Worldwound-related goals -

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"Understood," says Aspexia Rugatonn, very very terrifyingly. 

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"Have a nice day," says Neeshaan el-Nadiri, and smiles at her like almost no one in the world can get away with smiling at Aspexia Rugatonn. 

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They are approaching the moon. Cam gets permission to binary-search the moon for model Felandriels Morgethai and directs the shuttle to the appropriate bit of moon as he narrows it down.

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Felandriel Morgethai has set herself up comfortably, there, with some chairs and some tea that is rapidly evaporating into the vacuum and her dragonfly, Gallipsiwhoop, which cannot fly in vacuum but which is content on her arm, being petted. 

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Cam sets down near her and opens the door and bounces out and falls down and gets up again. "Hello!" he says, making air around him as he goes.

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"I want to pay you for a Mind Blank," says Carissa, much less excitedly. 

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"Sure thing, but it won't actually protect you from Wish-kidnapping," she says, and sends Gallipsiwhoop flying through the newly-extant air to cast Mind Blank on Carissa. 

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"What will."

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"Worldwound treaty, actually! That was completely brilliant of you and I'm very proud of you."

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Peanut gallery Hell-side what the fuck?

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There's a long pause.

 

 

" - no, I'm just an idiot, and I wanted to close the Worldwound, and I - felt like it was weird that - nothing had gone even more horribly wrong -"

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"- in that case we should get a copy of the actual treaty language and make sure they can't stretch it."  And she stands up and holds out her arm for Gallipsiwhoop so she can Plane Shift -

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" - Cam can do it. Cam can you make a copy of the Worldwound treaty please."

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"Absolutely positively." Poof.

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And Felandriel Morgethai casts a Mass Fox's Cunning and a Mass Owl's Wisdom and reads it aloud. 

 

 "They're not at the Worldwound," objects Gallipsiwhoop.

"Operating at, not 'at'. I think they're plainly operating at the Worldwound, and away from the Worldwound conducting...work pursuant to their aims at the Worldwound, specifically the work of not getting assassinated - I guess it's a bit of a stretch - Sevar, what do you say that we consider this a consultation on Worldwound-closing strategies."

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" - of course," she says. And then, a bit suspiciously, "you're Chaotic Good and not even a signatory."

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"Yes. But Cheliax is a signatory, and it's them we need to constrain. I don't think anyone else who knows you exist wants you Dominated or dead. But Aspexia Rugatonn would spend five Wishes on it, if she has that many from scroll."

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"I'm not Cheliax's enemy."

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"I am!"

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"He can't - do things without my permission -"

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Wobbly hand gesture.

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"Child, like every Chelish person who isn't soul-sold and has an independent means of transit you are a massive defection risk and the downside is much much larger for the upside, for Cheliax, here. You know this. You were - surprised on some level, that they hadn't killed you yet."

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"They're scared of me but they're wrong to be."

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"Who are you trying to convince?"

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This is pretty much what she expected from a Chaotic Good archwizard and she doesn't actually like it at all. She feels - like she can't trust any of this interaction as it's happened so far, like maybe it's all entirely deft manipulation -

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"My take on closing the Worldwound is that you could possibly achieve a lot on the Abyss end, with Cam's powers," she says casually. "Rather than just supplying the crusaders better and giving them time."

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"Oh, I was about to say that I still have the telescope and could probably cause explosions in the Worldwound from here if we became nervous about this during this conversation. Uh, do I need a Mind Blank or does having lined my skull with lead cut it?"

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"Unconventional but pretty much works," she says. "You like Carissa are vulnerable to Wish-kidnapping; in your case probably they would try to stash you in an antimagic demiplane somewhere. You can attack the Worldwound from here? Do it; I'd expect that to be a strong argument for the protections for those operating at the Worldwound to extend to you here."

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Cam goes and fetches his telescope and gets a good look at the Worldwound. "Carissa can I make some explosives. At the Worldwound."

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" - not on the soldiers. You can make some explosives on the demons if they're only enough explosions to explode the demons and not also the wardstones or the soldiers."

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"Yeah I was going to aim for the very middle of the Worldwound and undershoot it a bit."

Explosions.

Boom.

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" - pleased to meet you, by the way," says Felandriel Morgethai. "I'm Felandriel Morgethai. This is Gallipsiwhoop. Why'd you want to meet here?"

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"I was trying to be hard to reach."

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"I think it would be very hard to reach you without ninth circle spells," she says, "and it's hard to do better than that."

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...Gallipsiwhoop. Cam isn't going to say anything. "Pleased to meet you too. Is there a safe test of antimagic we could do to see if it'll suppress conjuration or also mess with my indestructibility possibly annihilating me entire? I already have permission to replace a wing if I lose one in indestructibility experiments."

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" - my fear would be that it'll dismiss you, that's what it generally does to summoned creatures, and I think we do not know how to get you back."

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"Oh, I know how to get me back though I'm not actually sure Carissa likes me that much and I'm also confused about how this hasn't happened here before so it's possible it's not in fact repeatable. You just draw a broken circle with room for me to stand in with the words I summon the apsel Campbell Mark Swan written around the edge, then finish the circle, and you're all set. - I'm currently under a more restrictive circle but you seem chill and it's a whole semester-long course to explain how to do the complicated version right anyhow."

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" - I like you fine! I just don't like the thing where I'll probably immediately die!"

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"I think you might be in somewhat more danger without me at the moment? I'm not sure."

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"Drawing that circle does not sound like it should work and I'm inclined to guess you came here by fluke accident and we cannot get you back if you go," says Felandriel Morgethai. "Which means you should at least give thousands of diamonds to the forces of Good first, and whatever else you have for making things a lot better for people."

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"See, I told you she'd want thousands of diamonds."

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"Who wouldn't, you can use them to make fucking Wishes. I am not presently at liberty to make diamonds, or I would give you a sackful," Cam sighs.

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"Could give them to Lastwall contingent on using them to try to raise you," she says to Carissa. "Or to me, I'd also use them for that, but I expect Cheliax would have attempted to persuade people not to trust me."

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"I've done that already with the Church of Abadar."

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"Reasonable. While we're on the topic of Lastwall, though, their spymaster wants to meet you. He was a Chelish Worldwound wizard himself, at one point."

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"I'm not defecting!"

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"He didn't say 'if she defects, she should talk to me', he thought you should talk to him regardless, and swore to let you depart unimpeded and unmurdered and undominated etcetera etcetera."

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" - does every important person in the Inner Sea already - know about this -"

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"The forces of Good do talk to each other. It's one of Good's great advantages."

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Cam pulls his coffee mug from where he has hooked it to his belt and tops himself up on coffee. "Yeah, uh, I sent some letters without telling you, Carissa."

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"Kind of Asmodean of you, really. To who?"

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"Well, Kofusachi recommended Vigil and Sothis, so there."

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"I haven't done that to you," she says, levelly. "Everything I told you I wanted was genuinely Good, by your priorities, as I understood them."

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"I appreciate that but I have from very early on in our acquaintance been operating under the assumption that this is not a truly collaborative relationship. If you want a truly collaborative relationship you can snap my binding."

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"I don't have the slightest desire for whatever passes for a collaborative relationship among Chaotic Good outsiders."

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"But you were trying for the - Lawful Neutral version," says Felandriel Morgethai. "The Worldwound version."

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"You already called me stupid and I agreed that I was stupid."

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"I wasn't calling you stupid. I was noticing a kind of nobility of spirit that is not strictly prohibited in Cheliax, though it is unAsmodean."

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"I think we're done here."

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"I really think you should meet Lastwall's spymaster."

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"I really think you should get off my moon."

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"What are you going to do about it if she doesn't?" Cam asks.

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"Go to the Chelish part of the Worldwound, and help the Chelish forces there with their demon problem."

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"...how are you planning to get there?"

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"Oh, if you want to strand me here then we probably have, like, an hour before Aspexia Rugatonn satisfies herself that we are no longer doing Worldwound-related things and kills me."

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Cam picks up his telescope and blows up the middle of the Worldwound again.

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"- look, it would take a lot to annoy me enough that I pray to Asmodeus or some lesser archdevil that He inform His followers that I've abandoned all intentions of working on the Worldwound in any capacity, but I will do it, if you seem sufficiently opposed to my goals, which you are trying very hard at right now for some reason."

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"I'm not opposed to all your goals! I would just like you to hear out some nice people who are, as we discussed, both safe to negotiate with and trustworthy. Surely this will not prevent you from deciding to pray to Asmodeus et al."

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"- I came here, and I talked with Morgethai, and now I am done doing so. I don't trust Lastwall's spymaster. Especially not if he's Chelish. Paladins won't - make you regret having dealt with them - but I bet he's not a paladin. And Good, as you have just abundantly established, is totally happy to make you regret having dealt insufficiently carefully with them."

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"Carissa, I don't think the place Cam is from has Law as a substantial feature of the universe. I think you are annoyed at him for something that is literally not a meaningful conceptual boundary where he's from."

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"I am not annoyed at the Chaotic outsider for not being Lawful, I'm just pointing out what incentives it creates for me."

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"Maybe we could talk to a paladin instead and see if they can sell you on the spymaster?"

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"In what way is this supposed to advance my goals?"

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"Well, if we can get something sorted out with some paladins I will be way less tempted to answer Razmir's letter. It was a very nice letter."

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"- Razmir knows about this??"

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" - did you know that Razmir knows about this -"

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" - no! That genuinely seems like a pretty serious problem, and I'm displeased to learn of it! Maybe Cheliax reached out to him because they expected to need some Wishes. What did Razmir...say."

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"He seems to have intercepted a letter, I didn't have very secure options. Uh, he wants material objects in exchange for, quote, 'unmatched arcane power'. It sounds like a good deal but he's evil so I would want something hammered out Law-wise before getting anywhere near him."

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"He's evil and also an idiot," says Felandriel Morgethai, a bit despairingly. "I suppose if you work out a contract in advance and trade items which have verifiable properties, with him, via drop sites...


Carissa, Lastwall has an interest in protecting you. Conceivably the strongest interest in protecting you of any power on Golarion. For every reason Cheliax wants you dead, Lastwall wants you alive. You can't actually afford to try to do this without allies, and - I get the sense you'd prefer Lawful ones."

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"How is a ninth circle wizard an idiot."

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"A fantastic question!'

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"If Lastwall has anything to say to me they can write a letter like everyone else, they don't need to get in spellcasting range."

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Does Cam have any new mail?

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Not yet. 

 

 

"I think you should think about this situation from Lastwall's perspective, here," says Felandriel Morgethai. "They have an ally - Cam - who could conceivably solve all of their problems, prevent the torture of millions or possibly billions of people, end hunger and disease, make the world into a paradise, who wants to do that, and who is unable to do that. A fairly likely outcome, from here, is that someone murders you or successfully traps Cam, and they lose - all of that."

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"Now, the only reason the possibility of all that Good is even on the table is because you noticed what was at stake and immediately fled Cheliax and made yourself a party to the Worldwound treaty. That was genuinely the best move you could possibly have made, and brought this situation from one that was probably catastrophic for everyone except to Cheliax to one that has wildly more upside and less downside. I am grateful to you. I am not a signatory to the Worldwound treaty, but among the reasons I didn't Dominate you the second you arrived here is that you, in fact, on very little notice, decided to close the Worldwound, and I'm not, actually, comfortable enslaving someone who is from a very impoverished starting point working to make the world better because there's a lot of important making-the-world-better they're neglecting. 

The other, possibly more ultimately controlling reason, is that it's true that if you give up on working on the Worldwound Cheliax will be able to retrieve and kill you, and so we'd probably get one day of having Cam, and while he could do a lot in one day my own impulses are in fact to play for getting something much much better than that."

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"I'm all in favor of ending hunger and disease and making the world into a paradise and so on."

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"Oh good, I love ending hunger and disease and making worlds into paradise. I will be much better at it if we can both of us hear and take advice from someone who isn't - in the habit of believing things because evil propagandists decided it served their obscure goals. Somebody who is not backing geopolitical aims that involve folks being turned into quivering flesh cubes. I'm not really picky! The Abadarans seem cool! We can talk to a paladin instead of the spymaster! If you have a safe way to talk to Razmir he's Lawful Evil if that's important to you! Cheliax actually seems almost uniquely bad in this department."

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" - well, I'm happy to talk to Abadarans."

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"I suspect at some point Lastwall is going to force the question. I suppose you could let Cam talk to them but not yourself attend."

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So he can conspire with them against me, she doesn't complain plaintively, because that'd be childish. 

 

" - fine. I'll draw up terms for confidentially meeting with Lastwall, and with the Abadarans, pursuant to my work on fixing the Worldwound which I am actively engaged in. 

 

I do appreciate the not Dominating me. I considered it reasonably likely you would. Just - not quite as likely as anyone else."

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"And I appreciate immensely that you want to make the world into a paradise and so on, and will try to keep you alive for that work. 

 

You could give Lastwall diamonds they can employ only for retaliating against whoever murdered you, if murdered. That might deter Cheliax or Razmir or various other interested parties from trying."

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"I'll think about it."

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Telescope. Boom. "I will not be able to hit the Worldwound from the moon when the moon is not up as seen from the Worldwound. Is this a problem or do we count as long as it's just that?"

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"We can spend our time on - figuring out what the logistics of actually fixing the Worldwound look like, I would not expect we have to be actively engaged in exploding it. Though this is a good question to ask Lastwall and also the Abadarans. Can I have some paper and ink, for proposed terms for talks?"

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"If you refresh my budget for those, I don't know how close I am to running it down."

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"You can make one more sheet of paper and sufficient ink to cover it." 

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Sigh. Ink, paper.

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"Do you have any questions for me, while she writes up terms?" asks Morgethai of Cam.

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"I sort of suspect you know more about what I need to know than I do."

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"Cheliax is run by the forces of Hell and everyone in it is mindread and loyalty-tested and punished into not deviating too much, if you hadn't already gathered that. Cheliax is gradually losing territory, but there were, yesterday, no immediate prospects of toppling it. In your space shuttle, you're approximately unreachable except to people who can cast ninth circle spells, which are myself, Razmir, Nefreti Clepati, Areelu Vorlesh, the High Priestess of Asmodeus Aspexia Rugatonn, the Archbanker of Abadar Kalit Merin, the Great Inaris Jerveel, priestess of Gorum,  High Priestess of Urgathoa Thulraga, Godspeaker Raviyah al-Khurrat, King of Vyre Delaraius Solzakarr, the First Lady of Laws, Neferpatra Ahnkamen, and the high priestess of Gozreh Meandri Hembor.

And some names that appear only in legends but might show up if sufficiently interesting things are happening -- Arazni, Baba Yaga, Nex, Geb, Hao Jin. This is - the kind of thing those beings might in fact show up for, this is very much unprecedented."

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....that is more people than Carissa had imagined could get to them here!

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Cam writes down all these names for the peanut gallery to research. "And presumably outright divine intervention? What do we need to worry about from these parties?"

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"The obvious thing to want to do is trap you both somewhere while various parties determine what your deal is and how they can exploit it. Cheliax and some other parties have an easier job because they just want Carissa dead. Many people might want to hold Carissa hostage for your only acting in ways they approve of in the Material. 


Gods, if they choose to intervene directly, will probably do so to send you home because they're sensitive about this planet, it has Rovagug trapped in it."

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"Oh. Would it make more sense for us to go to another planet? Less, uh, conflict of interest between the two of us on the geopolitics."

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"Do you ...have one in mind?"

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"It'll have to be in this solar system unless you want to give us a ride, my shuttle doesn't go that fast."

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" - I can absolutely give you a ride if you have in mind a planet that'd be good outside this solar system. And a diamond. But I do expect this results in the Church of Asmodeus assassinating Carissa via Wish in fairly short order, so it doesn't really solve your problems. Conceivably you could negotiate their nonintervention in exchange for going away and promising not to come back, though I'd actually be pretty saddened by your having to promise that."

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"It would be unfortunate, particularly if Golarion actually has more problems than the typical planet in this universe." Peanut gallery, triage some planets for him pretty please, he hopes you are having fun with all this background research. "Could keep in mind the option of, like, going and working on another planet for a few months or something, give everybody time to draw up contracts or whatever?"

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"Yeah, if you get a commitment out of Cheliax to not have you Wish-assassinated while you're on another planet, then going to another planet for several months seems plausibly a good next step." Morgethai shrugs. "Or not. Lastwall is a better resource on what kinds of arrangements with Cheliax might be attainable, and they and the Church of Abadar are both better resources on what the gods are up to. I personally try to give the gods enough distance that we can have a civil sort of relationship, instead of tripping over each other and growing to resent each other."

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"Kofusachi seemed awesome in our thirty seconds of acquaintance, though he did give me such a headache, but I don't want to do it regularly for the same reason I lined my skull with lead."

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"Kofusachi does seem like someone you'd get along with."

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"Abundance." Jazz hands. "Carissa, are we good to talk to some Abadarans, do you care which Abadarans, I don't think they all live in Osirion if the sexism is going to be awful. Or you could let me pay them to stop being sexist! I wonder what the price on that would be."

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" - if they'll quote you a price for it sure, why not, let's do it. I'm not done writing a negotiation proposal, that only takes five minutes if you're sure no one's going to care much about the details. You can get me a stack of similar negotiation proposals, if you want me to work faster."

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Can the peanut gallery tell him where to find such things?

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Yeah, there's plenty of those. Some of these people are literally religious about negotiations and treaties.

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He scrolls through the options. "Temos Sevandivasen? Lives in Absalom, should be nice and cosmopolitan and speak Taldane."

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"That name isn't Taldane." It doesn't even matter; she has Tongues."...it's still not safe to go near Absalom, so how do you propose we do this exactly?"

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"I'm maybe presuming a bit on Ms. Morgethai's willingness to be a shuttlebus."

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"I'm not, in fact, made out of ninth circle spell slots, but I can bring a few people by here - or, you know what would be more convenient and involve less worrying about how they'll breathe -" She puts up a Magnificent Mansion, which to Cam just looks like a glimmery doorway in midair. "I'll attune something to this, and then people I've granted access can get here on their own."

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Attuning a fork for a demiplane is supposed to take a full day. Felandriel Morgethai hands off a little metal rod to Gallipsiwhoop, which flies into the mansion and then flies out, and that's that. There might have been time for her to cast one spell through her familiar.

 

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Carissa wants to be a ninth circle wizard when she grows up.

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If she grows up. Which is unlikely.

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"You have terms for Temos?"

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"I am still working on it." Irritably; pressuring someone to rush written terms is a legibly hostile thing to do, unlike everything else the Chaotic Good people do around her which is only illegibly hostile.

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"He's an Abadaran. If you didn't get them right he'll patiently point out all the problems and propose mutually agreeable revisions."

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"That is indeed why I am talking to him first and not Lastwall." But all of them just want Carissa to make a mistake, the superficial friendliness notwithstanding.

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Carissa has already made lots of mistakes but they can wait a few minutes. Cam asks the peanut gallery if the explosions are helping at the worldwound or if they're just driving the surviving demons nuts such that they're inconveniencing people.

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This is the kind of thing that's really hard to conjure for. Demons are doing stuff but you need a lot of conjuring to arrive at a guess about whether it's any different from what they're usually doing. Probably it's ...a bit different?

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He will hold off till the results are in on that.

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Well, Carissa is going to take a full half hour composing her terms, and by then it looks like the main thing the demons have done in response to baffling bombardment is to disperse. Some of them are attacking the fortresses but not...more than usual...is Hell's crowdsourced best guess.

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Cool. More bombardment from space for them, then, before the planet turns too far away.

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Felandriel Morgethai leaves after about three minutes, but she leaves Gallipsiwhoop, and says 'she'll take your message for you!" 

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"Thank you, Gallipsiwhoop."

What's in the mansion?

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Honestly three minutes is very generous of Morgethai. She ...didn't even ask about payment. 

 

 

Carissa was hoping that meeting Good people rather than Good outsiders would be less confusing but it - wasn't. Maybe when she recovers from the terror inspired by realizing Cam had been secretly contacting her enemies, and can look back at the conversation, but she's not sure it'll make any more sense then.

 


Eventually she finishes the letter for Temos, and hands it to Gallipsiwhoop, who glides into the Magnificent Mansion to presumably Plane Shift. (You aren't supposed to be able to cast spells through your familiar when they're in a demiplane on the Moon and you're back on Golarion doing whatever you normally do, but most ninth circle wizards can do at least three impossible things before breakfast.)

 

 

The mansion wouldn't be out of place in (Cam's) Hell; it's very ornate, quite tasteful, with dozens of uniformed Unseen Servants littered about offering plates of snacks. Carissa takes some. 

"Well. I guess this is a kind of convenient sort of mutually assured destruction, as they go."

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"Is it?" He tries a snack.

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"- does it not seem so to you? If I stop working on the Worldwound, Cheliax murders me, if you stop working on the Worldwound, Cheliax Wishnaps you? I am aware that they're not doing it as a favor to me but I'm really quite grateful."

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"Hm, I guess it's better than if it were a more distasteful project but it does have the interesting consequence that we absolutely mustn't succeed, at least not before making alternate arrangements."

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"I was thinking of it as a five-year project anyway, and by then maybe I'll be decided about some other things, or identify one person somewhere in the world who is interested in being my ally, or be powerful enough to protect myself." There are little ice cream dumplings on this platter of appetizers. How charming.

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Cam tries one but doesn't care for the flavor and makes himself a chocolate version. "I guess it might take that long if you're that prickly about alliances."

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"Well. Razmir is an option, but will want us to believe he's a god, and he's not, and I bet when I die and go to Hell I'll get in trouble for having asserted he was. Morgethai is - not interested, is the sense I got? Lastwall's - we'll see. But I don't trust them at all. The rest of those people I mostly don't know anything about but I should assume they'll enslave us on sight, or are useless."

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"I could write him asking if the divinity assertion is nonnegotiable."

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"After the Church of Abadar's approved our language for opening negotiations with Lawful powers hostile to us, sure."

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"I'll put it on the to-do list." He does.

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"If you want to propose improvements to the world you can drop from here I'm happy to entertain them, though obviously I'll assume you're also just trying to get more abusable permissions."

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"My aim from this distance is pretty bad. Not totally unnavigable, I could hit a decent sized city or a comparably visible landmark, but still pretty bad. This would allow me to rain care packages on selected vicinities but not actually much more than that."

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"What would you propose to put in a care package?"

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"Food for anyone having a famine? Rain for anyone having a drought, I could do that."

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"I don't know who is having a famine or a drought but maybe Sevandivasen will."

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Peanut gallery, who's having a drought or a famine on this side of the planet?

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Bachuan is having a really bad time. Classic mistake: they tried Communism.

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"Bachuan! They tried Communism! Don't do that, it doesn't work. I should maybe mention this in the local language on the care packages so they don't keep needing a patch too often."

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" - I am confused about how you are learning things you didn't know five minutes ago and could not reasonably have read in a book," says Carissa.

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"I sent some letters without telling you."

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"You told me that earlier and, knowing that, I remain confused."

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"I think you have all the information for this one, will you actually take it as a sign of goodwill or whatever if I save you the work?"

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"So, five minutes go, you wrote a letter to someone who replied, and you invisibly conjured their reply, and it was 'Bachuan', which is Tian Xia, so you have a contact in Tian Xia? Or Nefreti Clepati?"

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"I'm taking that as a 'you wanna figure it out yourself'?"

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"I want to know, because it's another avenue for word to have gotten around that we're valuable to kidnap! But if guessing myself is how Chaotic Good people make friends, then I'll try!"

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"No, no, I'm willing to tell you, I just didn't know if it'd, like, land well?"

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"- I am not angry with you for conducting your own secret negotiations that observably haven't actually gotten us killed yet."

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"Cool. Way back in your classroom I surreptitiously composed a letter to all the other apsels back home. They are delighted and performing research for me in the background."

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" - but how do you know who to ask - and how do they know about a famine in Bachuan -"

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"There are billions of them and I addressed the most central library curation projects. They have already built a scale model of the entire planet and they're working on a full size duplicate. They can conjure absolutely anything they want, since they're at home and unbound, which lets them find lots of things - think how I found Felandriel only cleverer."

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" - but how is any of it - in a form you can access, you don't have time to read letters from billions of them - you said it's an anarchy -"

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"Yeah, some of them are helping sort it and condense it for me. For fun. Or because they want this world to be better."

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For billions of people? How would you even structure a system that accomplished that -

 

She decides not to push it farther. "I see. If you want to in the next few minutes make a lot of grain to drop on Bachuan you can."

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"Woot." Can he see Bachuan from here. He will whip up a bit of a communism denouncement so this miracle is not co-opted too easily by the government, machine-translate it into their language, "Can I make, like, sacks? Burlap or something is fine." He also wants to give them more stuff than grain but he can already make food so he doesn't need to ask her for specific soybean permission.

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"No."

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"Harsh." The people of Bachuan will receive their care packages in that edible seaweed paper stuff. Little fist-sized packages of, yes, grain, but also pulses and nuts, rain gently over Bachuan, each with the machine translation of "communism was a worthy experiment. it has failed, but its people should not go hungry" rain over Bachuan for the next few minutes.

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"I mean, I tried the 'I'll be friendly and approve requests that don't seem obviously terrible' thing, and that was clearly a mistake, so now we're not doing that anymore."

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"I guess I can't really blame you."

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At this point Sevandivasen Plane Shifts in. 

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" - hey. I want - well, first off I want to know if the negotiation terms were actually adequate, if I'm going to be talking to Cheliax or Lastwall."

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" - probably not," he says, "that's a specialty. Let me take a closer look..."

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"G'day," says Cam.

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"Hello." He glances at Carissa, then back at Cam. "As written, he's not covered - did you mean him to be - "

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"Yes!"

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"Well, if you're dealing with Cheliax, you need specific language for bound outsiders, I'll find you an example. - will protect the confidentiality of anything you tell me, and not attack your person," he adds to Cam, "because I am not an Asmodean."

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"I appreciate that although if you want to attack my person for any important indestructibility tests I do have the ability to replace a wing lost in an experiment. Just give me fair warning so I can take painkillers."

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"I don't really prepare spells for combat with powerful outsiders," he says. "Morgethai vouched for you."

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"She did?"

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"Well, weakly. She said that you were in wildly over your head and accordingly erratic but that you had a not-wildly-inaccurate impression of who you could trust in what capacities and would probably be leaning on the Church of Abadar a lot to, for example, make sure you're in compliance with and covered by the Worldwound treaty."

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"How kind of her," says Carissa flatly. " - actually, Cam, can you give us a moment alone?"

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"Why?"

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"So that I can ask some questions of Temos in private and have you not learn what I asked."

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"A fascinating and novel concept. Temos, that okay by you? If you step outside of this mansiony thing and I'm not with you there isn't any air out there, by the way."

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"Felandriel mentioned we were on the Moon. I'm willing to speak to Carissa privately; she gave me terms that are totally adequate if neither party is specifically trying quite hard to wrong the other."

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"Okay. Holler if she tries too hard." He steps into another room of the mansiony thing and catches up on suggestions from the peanut gallery.

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"Let's leave this room, he has small mechanical spies. Do you have something that permits telepathy, anything else will I suspect be intercepted."

          "I do not."

"Fine. I'll ask the questions, you cast Light if the answer is 'yes' and Guidance if the answer is 'no'.

Am I still a party to the Worldwound treaty when unconscious."

        "You're going to hate this but the answer is - it's complicated? When sleeping between operations at the Worldwound you're covered."

"If I'm rendered unconscious, insensible, Feebleminded, Dominated -"

        "And physically at the Worldwound?"

"No, I know the terms are less stringent at the Worldwound. While physically on the Moon."

        He casts cantrips. No. No. ...Yes. Yes.

"Understood. Thank you. Is that possible for me to change via formal statements of my intentions -"

       "Like, 'if I am Feebleminded or Dominated I would like to be no longer regarded as subject to the Worldwound treaty?"

"Exactly like that."

      " - sure, you could make a statement to that effect. Are you looking for advice on what's in your interests, here, or just on what's legal?"

"- I'll listen to advice on what's in my interests."

       "Ma'am, right now the Worldwound treaty is the only thing keeping you alive."

"I know. And so does everyone, and I want it to be the case that Good can only claim I'm subject to it, and thus benefit from it, while I'm not just alive but intact."

       "Fair enough. - further, obvious advice in your interests, have you considered Atoning?"

"- why?"

        "- so that, if you die, you don't go to Hell."

"And what's wrong with Hell?"

        "In Axis you wouldn't be a slave and not being a slave is generally nicer than being a slave."

"Asmodeus may someday conquer Axis."

         "And Abadar may someday conquer Hell but if They knew which was likelier They'd just talk it out instead, and presumably the equilibrium that brought Them to is the current one."

"I thought Abadar didn't do conquest."

         "He doesn't, but because of the whole 'just talk it out instead' thing."

"I'll think about it. I have a resurrection arranged anyway. I mostly wanted your advice on negotiating with Razmir -"

          "I do not recommend it."

"- nonetheless."

          "Sure."

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Cam gives his favorite toplevel peanut gallery curators a special mail label, his primary is getting a little overloaded. He's not trying to spy on their conversation.

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Carissa is gone a while but comes back quite cheerful, with more airtight negotiation-agreements, advice on Razmir (they probably want to not rely on his Law and instead just drop things off for him to pick up, and pick up things that he drops off, and never get near him), a clarification of the senses in which she considers herself actively engaged in closing the Worldwound and under what circumstances she'd consider this intent to not longer be in place, and a very large bill from the Church of Abadar (it's so large because she told them she wasn't actually sure if she'd be able to pay it but that if she could it would hardly matter how large it was). 

"Can you make this man some diamonds, please, Cam?"

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"Sure, how many, cut carat color?"

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"Eight. Clear. Approximately this wide across, and all in the empty space in front of us."

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"Still no on making a bag?"

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"That is correct."

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Eight diamonds appear in midair and clatter to the floor of the mansion.

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- Temos will take them. 

 

"Pleasure doing business with you," he says to Carissa. "Cam, did you want to negotiate as well?"

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"I would love to hear whatever you have to tell me but am not aware that I need per se to negotiate with you and also can't pay you unless she lets me or you happen to want something I am able to make without her per-occasion say-so."

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"I'll let you pay him if you are paying him for things that aren't against my interests as he assesses it."

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"I don't really know what I have to tell you," Temos says. "This situation is deeply unprecedented. We are in favor of your presence here and approve of closing the Worldwound. We would warn you that Lawful Evil people are untrustworthy and that Razmir is difficult to negotiate productively with."

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"I found his letter honestly very charming, as letters from Lawful Evil people go, would you like a look at it?"

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"...sure, if it's not confidential or trapped in some way?"

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"Not as far as I know but I might be immune to random things? I don't have the original, I have a copy, he put my mail label on it." He calls it up on his computer and hands it over to Temos.

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"He might mean it," Temos says dubiously after reading it. "And it's true that you need, uh, more protection than you have an obvious route to getting. And that Razmir is not a signatory to the Worldwound treaty and is one of the people you need that protection from if you don't keep him happy. 

But, well, he expropriated all of the banks in Razmiran because he wanted more money, so that's the kind of Lawful he is." Temos speaks of this with the anger some might reserve for a particularly notorious war atrocity.

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"Rookie mistake, but also exactly the sort of thing I can address in thirty seconds if Carissa lets me, which is why I found it so appealing, you know? Rah rah gains from trade."

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- Temos smiles, at that. 

"I would recommend being very careful about interacting with Razmir. He is powerful enough to disadvantage you immensely, and he might do it on little or no apparent provocation. I agree there are advantages if you can make it work, but - no step of your plan should be 'Razmir will do what's in his long-term interests' or 'Razmir will do what his trade partners understood had been agreed'.

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"Gotcha. You know anything about his ostensibly Good minion?"

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"I know nothing I'm at liberty to share, I'm sorry."

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"Can I get you to help me draft a return letter outlining conditions for future contact? I can't actually hit a pocket from the Moon but I can get it aimed more at-him than the last batch were."

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"I can. Can I do that in Absalom in consultation with some people who know more about Razmir, and address it to you when it's finished?"

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"Yeah, let me give you a custom address label, I'm getting a lot of correspondence from back home on my usual. Put 'letter to Cam raspberry pie' on it."

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"I will do so. Thank you."

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"Y'welcome. What do you think Carissa will let me get away with paying you?"

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He blinks. "It'll depend somewhat on how hard Razmir-expertise is to come by. I'd expect it to be much less than Carissa's payment, as she represented herself uncertain if she was able to pay, and you've just demonstrated ability to pay. Two diamonds of that kind would almost certainly exceed the final costs."

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"Oh, I only have ability to pay if Carissa lets me. You know this costs me absofuckinglutely nothing, right? Like I don't know what theory of value you go in for but you should absolutely soak me for everything she'll let you."

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" - so, I'm willing to account for the projected rapidly falling value of diamonds in quoting you estimates, but I don't believe in quoting you more than the actual value of my labor. You can separately give me presents if you want to do that."

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"You can make up to five diamonds of the previously discussed size to give the Abadaran a present if you want."

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"Plus two to pay him with."

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"Yes, you can also make two to pay him with."

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Seven diamonds for the Abadaran.

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Then he'll head home! 

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"And Lastwall's going to come pick up the tuning fork, if they accept the deal." She looks tense. Actual Chelish people will judge her in a comprehensible Chelish way rather than an incomprehensible Good outsider way.

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And, a little while later, a man Plane Shifts in. He is, as promised, Chelish, and his magic items identify him as a very high-level wizard, though a rather weaker one than Felandriel Morgethai. There's a paladin in Lastwall's livery accompanying him.

"—I am going to cast an Antimagic Field on myself and my companion," he says, already doing that. "For my protection and yours."

"I have been informed you do not trust me," he says, mostly to Carissa. "That is, perhaps, wise, but I will nonetheless treat this as the sort of meeting where I am trying to change that, since you did invite me here under conditions. If you had not done that, we would still be having this meeting, but there would be much less trust involved or deserved."

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Carissa is not going to win this fight and is counting on having arranged to not have one. There's a treaty. 

"I want to fix the Worldwound," she says, mostly succeeding at not sounding like she's terrified.

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"As do I. And a number of other things besides. But we can focus on the Worldwound until we find a more sustainable solution for keeping Cheliax from murdering you—I assure you we will find something satisfactory. I am still alive, after all."

Then, to Cam—"What Lastwall most desperately needs, before we can make any sort of plan, is information on whatever sort of thing you are, and the details of your capabilities, as far as you are willing to share those. Preferably information that we have some way to verify—there are truth spells but an outsider of your power could trivially defeat one cast by a mortal, the way our magic normally works."

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"I have no idea if my power level has anything to do with my ability to defeat a truth spell since we don't have those back home. Do you have a sensible order in mind by which I should give you the introduction to apsels or should I just talk till you interrupt?"

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"Just talk. I have no expectation that the assumptions underlying any particular question I might ask at this point are correct."

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"In the set of universes I am accustomed to, there are nonmagical humans, let's call them Earthlings; and there are apsels, changers, movers, and Limboites. All five of these groups live in separate universes, no contiguity between them. Apsels, changers, and movers, collectively 'daeva', are summonable by Earthlings in a procedure I gather has little to do with local summoning rituals. This was rumored to unknown throughout Earthling history till an event called Revelation about a hundred fifty years ago - Earth years are about the same as Golarion ones - but is now common and has ushered in a lovely post-scarcity era, hurrah. Unless it turns out daeva-summoning is repeatable here, though, only apsels matter for your purposes. We make things. The things have to be nonmagical and I have to know roughly what they are and where to put them. I cannot make antimatter, vacuum, objects that begin in motion - though they can begin under tension and I can play some tricks with frame of reference. My range limit is like, two three times the distance from Golarion to its sun. I have a volume per time limit but it is very high - it takes an apsel working alone a few weeks to make a Golarion-sized planet."

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So, first of all, that's bullshit.

The universe, however, is very big, and actually contains rather a lot of bullshit. 'The ability to make arbitrary material objects' is about consistent with the reports he's been getting.

There are a thousand directions for further questions and research but his job is to prioritize those, and the most important for their interests right now is—

"Can you, and are you willing to, give explicit instructions on how to summon a daeva? It seems that whatever your summoner did was not repeatable, else Cheliax would have done so by now, but we ought to do the test." Because then they won't have to route everything through a Chelish wizard whom they can probably get to defect but might not.

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"I can! I used to teach university courses on it! It is complicated to do the complicated safe way but a sentence of explanation to do the simple dangerous way. By dangerous I don't mean you'll explode I mean that the daeva in question will be free to do whatever they want. I can provide standardized safe summoning circles in the Earthling languages but none have been designed in any Golarion ones; if Carissa won't give me more paper allowance I can show you a computer version," he waves his computer, "I'm competent to do a translation in Taldane if that's desirable but you have translation magic so perhaps it isn't worth the bother."

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"Please do. On a related note, can you in fact do things of the variety 'conjure everything someone has ever written'?"

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"Yes, I can. Again not magic stuff but otherwise yep. For this reason among others I would normally have been very hesitant to tell everybody at home this world exists but I was under some interesting constraints at the time. If you want some painless brain surgery you can have a state of the art computer like mine that you control with your brain and that we can't decrypt though."

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"Not yet. That use of conjuring could be as useful to us as it is harmful, and how harmful it is depends on whether summoning is repeatable. So. Are there any daeva you know and trust 'at home', who are already aware of the existence of Golarion, such that we would not cause the secret to spread further? Also, I would like a more general explanation of 'computers', but after the test."

He walks over to Cam to get a look at the circle on his computer.

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(Carissa is pretty sure it just doesn't work here, with Cam a weird accident; if that's false, then everything is going to change so rapidly all she can hope for is to be far away on the Moon when it does, and importantly if that's false Cheliax already has this.)

(That doesn't make it not more of a betrayal of Cheliax than anything else so far, just one that's concentrated into an unlikely world.)

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"Inconveniently I am in my downtime a huge introvert and cannot unequivocally recommend anyone I know to be summoned unbound. But, uh, they're all definitely aware if they read anything I write at all so all the ones I could contact will not in being contacted spread the secret further! I can recommend ones who I don't think would do anything heinous but I am unusually prosocial as people go." Behold, the text of a Safe Summoning Authority generic ungagged demon apsel circle and a diagram of how to wrap it around the circle part.

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He dismisses the Antimagic Field and Prestidigitates the circle on the floor.

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"I can probably actually do this part, come to think of it, you don't need paper per se, I can do it in, like, ketchup or something. It'd be faster and less error prone."

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"I was under the impression only mortals could summon, but if you can do it—I suppose I cannot stop you." He'd rather not take the risk of the apsel suddenly doing something Chaotic with the binding, but he's already entrusted enough to Cam being friendly that—it doesn't actually matter.

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"You have to do the last step but I can copy out the binding for you and give you some ketchup to fill in the broken circle. Read it over if you like, it's still faster to read than to write."

Ketchup! And more ketchup in a little seaweed packet for the spymaster.

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He competes the circle.

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Nothing happens.

"Well heck. Guess I am it for the foreseeable future."

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"I would not be certain your summoning is not repeatable without significantly more research than we have time for here and now—and even if no mortal can replicate whatever magic brought you here, I would not be surprised if Hell managed it. However, if this result is indicative, that is probably good news on balance—though it does mean that keeping both you and your summoner our of the hands of Cheliax or Hell will be both more important and more difficult. Do you know if you can be affected by mind-affecting spells, and how easily?"

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"I have lined my skull with lead. - and am immune to lead poisoning. I have performed no further experiments in that direction."

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"That should protect against divinations—mind reading—but not enchantments—mind control, broadly speaking. I would like to determine if one of our common mind-control spells works on you, or if one would need to use the version that works on outsiders, which is ninth circle—and not a cleric spell, so there is no one in Cheliax specifically who can cast it, although they could conceivably obtain a scroll." He'll see what bribe Razmir requires to swear to absolutely under no circumstances sell a scroll of Dominate Monster to anyone but them. "Additionally, can your summoner compel actions from you, or merely forbid them?"

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"Merely forbid them, I can stop doing stuff whenever I want. Uh, I don't really want to be mind-controlled; I understand the value of having the information from the experiment but would like a thorough explanation of what's going to happen if it works on me first."

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"You will have the opportunity to resist the spell, which you should do—it will be informative if you can; if you fail you will be compelled to obey my commands until the spell is dispelled or expires—which it would do by default after about two weeks, at my power level. I do not need to give you any commands to know whether the spell has taken, although I would like to test whether it overrides your binding. For that I will attempt to compel some trivial conjuration which your summoner has forbidden. You have my oath that I will dispel the spell immediately afterward, and that there will be no lasting effects after it is dispelled; the terms under which I am here additionally forbid me from casting any enchantments on you without your ongoing permission, and I intend to abide by those terms."

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"For some reason she does not want me to make burlap sacks," says Cam. "You can aim for that. Does this rely on spoken commands?"

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"No, it creates a telepathic link, although that link is not capable of carrying anything other than spoken language. The spell does not affect mental state, only actions."

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"Sounds very fake that lead would block divinations but not telepathic links." He sets up a camera to record the interaction and gets his mug with which to swig some human-safe-doses of anxiolytics. "I'm ready."

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Dominate Person.

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Doesn't work.

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"It seems that you are not relevantly a humanoid," he says. "Which is good; there ought to be only three people in Avistan who can directly mind-control you. One of them is Felandriel Morgethai, who shares roughly your opinion of compulsions; another is Razmir, who does not; and the third is Areelu Vorlesh, who is a partisan of Deskari, the demon lord believed to be responsible for opening the Worldwound."

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"Does the mind blank thing Carissa got handle these situations if I need to, say, assassinate Areelu Vorlesh?"

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"It makes you significantly more resistant, but not immune. Whether this would be enough to provide reliable protection would depend on your natural resistance to mind-affecting spells, which, inconveniently, I was not able to assess. If your resistance is commensurate with your power, as it typically is for beings in our world, you should have no problem, but I have no good reason to expect this to be true in your world. At any rate, I do not have one prepared today, but I would if you were to—can you actually assassinate Areelu Vorlesh?"

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"Probably? If I can, like, see them? I should possibly set up a very destructive deadman switch..."

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"Additionally, a lot of powerful demons also have the mind-control spell that works on outsiders. You may be better off conducting all your anti-Worldwound operations from outside Dominate range—less than 200 feet, even for an exceptionally powerful outsider."

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"No problem, I can see the Worldwound from space."

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"...could you kill Deskari? I'm not sure that would just close it but it would definitely make it easier to close. I don't think He's ever actually crossed over onto Golarion but it seems possible, if you can kill Him from space, it might be worth trying to draw Him out."

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"The thing I would do if I were trying to kill someone would be to -" He produces an illustrative tomato. He interpolates it down to the cellular level with a similar mass of air. Air like they have in Cheliax. "If they are specifically in the Worldwound I also have creative explosion options. Or Carissa can let me do more stuff."

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"Surviving that isn't among the known capabilities of demon lords although possibly it isn't known on account of no one having that ability. Hypothetically, if you were unbound, what's the most destructive thing you could conjure? Just to get an idea of our options here."

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"A black hole. I can't do that right now but kind of only on a technicality, a black hole is extremely dense matter and it doesn't matter much what kind, that will gravitationally draw other things toward it. Like a dark star the size of your head. I shouldn't do this anywhere on an inhabited planet."

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"I was imagining doing it in the Abyss but I have no idea what the effects of that on Golarion would be—and also the way gravity works in the Abyss is generally 'however the local demon lord wants it to' so perhaps it would not even work."

"If you can assassinate Areelu Vorlesh you should do that. I'll provide all the information we have on her—although perhaps your conjuration will work even better for that. Bigger plans than that should probably be run by us first, and in the meantime we need to discuss security arrangements for you and your summoner."

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Peanut gallery, when someone has a minute they could research Areelu Vorlesh. "Especially since if we actually render the Worldwound treaty moot her countrymen will, I am given to understand, immediately murder her."

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"Ideally we would have her transfer negotiating authority to us and then go hang out in Heaven for a while, but in the spirit of cooperation we're not going to compel that, and we're open to alternative arrangements."

He turns to Carissa. "Of course, we can get you an Atonement, in case Cheliax does get to you. You're actually the first non-soul-sold person I've encountered in some time who's successfully left Cheliax and not immediately begged us for one."

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"I'm not actually sure she can transfer negotiating authority except in the sense that if she told me to do whatever I want then it would no longer be important who had that authority."

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"I would contemplate giving temporary permissions by Telepathic Bond from safety. ...I don't care that much about an Atonement. If they do get to me they'll presumably Maledict me anyway. Also, I'm not, in fact, obsessed with avoiding Hell and only realized belatedly that everyone on all sides was acting on the assumption I was. I've met devils. They seem cool. I am willing to entertain your argument for why I should prefer being Heaven's but I can't say I'm expecting to be persuaded."

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"I do think someone should have that conversation with you, at some point. We can hardly force you to Atone, it's just—I would hate to see anyone with a choice go to Hell, because I don't have that choice. Though I am working on it."

"Do you at least recognize your incentive not to return to Cheliax voluntarily?"

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"I'm not that much of an idiot. I'm not reliably enough theirs they could afford to ever let me take actions again, and Cam's probably not usable by them at all unless they can get a Dominate Monster out of Razmir; they'll probably just kill me, if they don't have some way to use him, and kill me once they have a sufficient advantage out of having used him, if they do. I'm planning to stay away, and stay working on the Worldwound. You don't have to convince me that's in my interests.

I would take some convincing it's in my interests to give my homeland's enemies the weapons to destroy them."

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Is Hell your homeland? he does not ask, because one does not become the spymaster of Lastwall by revealing intentions like that for the sake of a witty reply.

"We do not intend to destroy Cheliax," he says, "only to free it from Hell's tyranny. I think this is—somewhat obviously in your interests, and you merely require convincing that it is possible and not inevitably going to make things worse for everyone involved. Which unfortunately I cannot do while there is a chance that any of the information I might give you, in doing that, might make it back to Chelish ears."

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"I'm sure you have in mind some totally nondestructive method of freeing Cheliax. Anyway, I'll accept Lastwall's help staying alive, I won't give you diamonds, other matters are negotiable."

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"In our estimation you would be safest in Heaven. It would be very, very difficult for an Evil caster to Wish-kidnap you from there. It has the disadvantage that a Telepathic Bond could not reach Cam while he's here on the Material, but there are other methods of communication—incidentally, Cam, is there any way I can communicate with you at a distance that any apsel can't trivially conjure? Assume that I am reluctant but not necessarily unwilling to have anything implanted in my brain."

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"Why Heaven and not Axis, because Axis will charge and Heaven is offering for free? I can pay Axis, and they're going to be putting a lot less effort into manipulating me."

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"If you want the brain computer you can encrypt things so that I can decrypt them and nobody else can. Otherwise your options are security-by-obscurity or anything too magic to conjure. I can take instructions from Carissa in writing, if she writes them from Heaven - or Axis, if she can be made safe in Axis - but it introduces some delay and makes it harder for me to explain what I want to her with the cunning use of videos about crabs."

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To Carissa—"I expect it would be within the power of someone in Axis to protect you, if you paid them well enough, and—well, payment should not be any object."

To Cam—"You may make me a 'brain computer', with your summoner's permission, if it will not affect my health or mental processes in any way. I would like her to have one as well, if she consents."

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"The technical term is 'chiplock'. If you have a rare allergy or something I cannot guarantee it will not affect you in any way. It won't hurt, almost everyone who has one loves it, you will need to spend some time training it to respond to your thoughts, and almost none of the software is in any languages you speak and Comprehend Langauges will not actually be a panacea for that."

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"Can it be removed, if it does turn out to have unforseen effects?"

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"It is difficult but not impossible to safely remove one from a human. - in situations without magical healing, maybe you can have somebody grab it out of your skull by magic and be fine after a channeled energy is flung in your direction, I wouldn't know. I have been to medical school and am qualified to attempt it the nonmagical way but I would need equipment I am not currently at liberty to conjure."

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"I don't actually trust Cam and am not granting him additional permissions to do brain surgery at this time."

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"I want to point out that I did not actually ever agree not to write letters to third parties and that if I had this would in fact have meant something to me."

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"I think that on balance I consider it worth the risk for me to have one. Carissa, if it would help, I can swear not to use the computer for non-Worldwound-related activities, at least until such time as I could have acquired one without your permission."

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"Noted," she says to Cam, "but you also haven't agreed to not do a long list of other things I don't want you to do, so, unless you're offering to agree not to act against Cheliax, the Church of Asmodeus, etcetera, I should clearly be assuming you are trying to do those things, and this is reasonable of you, I'm not upset about it,  and it means no more permissions to make stuff."

 

And to Jean, "will you swear not to use your chip in any way that's against my interests until such a time as you could have acquired one without my permission?"

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"Surely you don't need fully general pledges not to act against those entities in order to let me put the famine relief in burlap sacks! I would have promised you to deploy burlap sacks for the sole expedient of compartmentalizing food deliveries!"

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"I don't know how you were sending letters! For all I know the burlap sacks would've had things written on them in differences in coloration in the fabric!"

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"They were paper and ink. Wrapped around potatoes so they wouldn't blow away. Also the messages written by decrypting addressed notes on my computer and also the prayer. I did actually write things on the edible packaging but it was just about how this famine relief did not constitute an endorsement of Communism."

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"I can't tell if you think from my perspective it would've been correct to let you put the potatoes in burlap sacks, or just that from your perspective it would have been convenient."

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"You have already made so many mistakes that the only thing restricting me more at this point does - at least about mundane things like burlap sacks - is kind of tick me off and encourage me to be more creative. I could kill you like I did the demonstration tomato. I could ask Razmir to show up and hassle you, though I'm convinced this would not be a good idea at this time. I could render you unconscious and haul you wherever if I knew a good place to take you and I can get the folks back home to figure out such a place if it seems like a good use of their energy."

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"You can try.  Hell will tell Aspexia Rugatonn that I'm not working on the Worldwound anymore, and the Church of Abadar has my attestation that - only if unconscious or Dominated or Feebleminded or otherwise unable to act in my right mind - I consider Cheliax as my legitimate command with the legitimate right to return me home or subject me to a legal proceeding, including by removing me from the Worldwound or from operations related to it."

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"Yeah, for that among other reasons I'm not actually going to do any of this, it's just, the things you have not allowed me to make are not operatively constraints there."

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"From my perspective it is not obvious which constraints are operative and it is incredibly stupid to just let you do things because you claim they aren't the operative ones."

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Sigh. "I want to point out that this seems to me like I'm being disincentivized from having told you what I was up to."

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To Carissa—"I do not know the full details of everything you might consider your interests, and furthermore we might disagree on the matter of what's in your interests, such as whether it's in your interests to go to Hell, so no, I cannot make such an oath, although I am willing to make a more specific one along the same lines."

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"I had figured out you were up to something from your suspiciously comprehensive knowledge of random things! I want to point out that I feel disincentivized from doing famine relief in Bachuan! Because you're really mad at me over the burlap sacks and wouldn't have been if I'd just said 'maybe we can do famine relief later'!"


Carissa did not at all expect Jean to make that oath. She nods curtly.

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"I'm exasperated, perhaps even annoyed, about the burlap sacks, not angry."

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"Nonetheless it seems like I am worse off because I tried to do famine relief in Bachuan, because you unpredictably get incredibly touchy if refused things."

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"Um," says the paladin. 

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"- so it's not surprising that this is a disaster of a working relationship, but it seems quite bad it's a disaster of a working relationship, do you guys want a mediator or some cloaks of the diplomat or something?"

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"We were doing better before. Bantering about meeting in the middle at Lawful Good, I'm not ideologically chaotic. What's a cloak of the diplomat do?"

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"It makes people more....diplomatic. Makes them have an instinct for how to say things so they go over well instead of irritating each other."

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"Possibly worthwhile if she's up for it. Same with the mediator."

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"Sure.

I'm - trying to work with you, here. With Cam and with - what I'm doing is in Lastwall's interests. Compared to - having stayed in Cheliax, obviously, in which case you wouldn't even have a country by now probably, and compared to my having run very very far away to be rich and just look out for myself. I'm trying to do - I don't care if it's the Good thing, but a thing that is - better for everyone. I would actually like it if in ten years there's no one who can reasonably complain this went badly, except insofar as someone else gained even more than they did."

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"That's very noble," says the paladin. "...and Cheliax has almost certainly seized your family, and anyone else you've ever given any indication of caring about, as leverage against you, and will communicate soon some horrible fate they'll suffer if you don't come back, so you can't have that, though I wish you could."

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"I don't care about my family."

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"I didn't say you did."

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"Is there a more specific list of things you'd like me to swear not to do with the computer, such that you'd feel comfortable allowing Cam to make me one?" he asks Carissa. Personally, he would consider working with Cam behind her back on freeing Cheliax or blowing up Hell to be well within 'her interests', but that's not actually how Lastwall considers Law to work.

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" - can you give some examples of communications you'd want to use it for."

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"Principally, I'd use it to write down things, which are state secrets and I cannot give you specific examples of, in such a way as other apsels cannot conjure, in case some other faction does manage to summon one. For the most part the same things I would have written on ordinary paper, which apsels can conjure with no effort. I could continue to use my old methods for Lastwall's operations affecting Cheliax, although I do not expect Cheliax's interests to be harmed by me using the computer instead, unless they manage to summon a cooperative apsel, in which case they will not gain an advantage they would have otherwise gained. I will refrain from using it for clandestine communications with Cam, if that is your concern." He'll do that via other methods, like talking to him to his face while she's in Axis.

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The general form of Carissa's concern is 'everyone is smarter than me and trying to manipulate me via all available avenues'. "This doesn't really sound like it particularly serves me," she says.

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"Understood. I'll arrange a safe house in Axis for you, though Cam will have to pay for it. Anything else before I go?"

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"I was really expecting a pitch on why to work for you! Is that a different department?"

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"The pitch that worked on me was 'you might not go to Hell'. If you need something more complicated than that, yes, that's a different department." In general the people that work for him don't need prompting to hate Cheliax.

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"All right. Nothing else at this time, then.  - thank you for making arrangements in Axis."

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"Cam?"

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"To my knowledge no apsels are currently investigating you specifically so communications to me will be secure if you use a nonce mail label, like, oh, 'strawberry kiwi revelation'."

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"Understood."

He Plane Shifts himself and the paladin out, and gets to work on contacting all his agents who work with powerful wizards (who are Lawful and non-Hell-aligned) to tell them that Lastwall is placing a very large bounty (exact amount to be revealed after screening) on a secret problem related to summoning.

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Cam sighs and sits down in one of the furnishings supplied by the mansion.

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She should say something normal to Cam or they'll end up in a pattern where they only talk at each other when snapping at each other. 

 

 

"Wow, I was all prepared to hear Heaven's best attempt to tempt me to their side and they just wanted to talk logistics." She sits down too.

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"I bet for most people 'have you considered not becoming a quivering lump of flesh' is a pretty good pitch, they may not have tried many others."

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"Eternity is a really long time! Caring about what the first thousand years are like is just - being very pathetic."

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"I don't know if there's even a point in me responding to that.

Oh, I should've asked them if they have any ideas that could develop into - bloodless de-Helling of Cheliax -"

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" - I guess that's a good thing to ask them, yeah."

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Is Gallipsiwhoop still around?

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Nope; Gallipsiwhoop had to Plane Shift out to hand off the tuning rod to Lastwall. It said it'd be back later in the evening.

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Well, then Cam is going to go get his violin and play cranky violin music. In the mansion, so if Carissa wants to go out he can accompany her to make air.

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Carissa is going to work on Worldwound plans of attack, including 'kill Deskari', and not find out whether Cam's still willing to make her air. 

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When Cam's feeling a bit more even-keeled he puts his violin back in the shuttle - he doesn't know what happens to stuff left behind in this mansion when it ceases to exist, might forget to clear it out, and does not currently expect Carissa to let him make a new violin - and comes back again. Catches up on the toplevel peanut gallery remarks.

"Okay, hear me out for a sec," he says, after he's done that.

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"I'm listening."

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"As I understand it, if Razmir gets impatient we currently can't do very much about that. I don't want to go talk to him but I want to make it clear that I'm not ignoring him and give him a productive next step to take. I would like to send him a gift basket with strategically irrelevant stuff in it - like, snacks and a fluffy blanket, that kind of thing - and a note explaining that we are in active search of conditions under which it would be advisable to meet him or his Good minion. My motives in proposing this are that, one, we don't know how long it'll take him to get grumpy about not having an answer to his letter and would both rather he not get grumpy enough to show up with Dominate Monster; two, to accelerate the timetable on which we have more of those scary high-circle folks in our loosely construed corner than opposed to it; three, see if he's easy to bribe to quit being awful to his citizenry; and four, to not create another behind-your-back correspondence for you to hold a grudge about, since if you think about it I can do this without your go-ahead as long as I leave out the blanket. Thoughts?"

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" - that seems pretty reasonable."


A long pause to think about it some more. 

 

 

"What materials do you want to make the blanket out of?"

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"Uh, the softest blanket I am aware of is a blend of a bunch of things, I can look it up..." He looks it up. "Silk, vicuña, and - wow, owl feathers, wasn't expecting that."

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Another long pause to think.

 

"In the next five minutes you can make a blanket made up only of silk, vicuña, and owl feathers, no more than eight feet in any dimension, here where I can inspect it for secret messages to Razmir, and while I'm not granting new permissions I expect you'll also make whatever else you were planning."

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Cam decides against complaining that he doesn't know what Razmir's favorite color is yet. He goes with navy blue. Blanket. It's ludicrously soft, almost feels like it doesn't exist at all.

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Does it appear to have any secret messages for Razmir?

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Nope, it's just navy blue fluff, no cables or weird knots or anything.

The snacks are in a basket woven of celery and mostly various candies. The note, which is wrapped around a potato, says, Dear Razmir, thank you for your letter! I am in search of conditions under which it would be wise to meet you or Telriana, as I agree that it sounds more than possible for us to have a positive sum collaboration wrt vast quantities of material objects. I regret that I do not have the finesse to reach either your pockets or hers at an advisable distance; please accept these gifts as an apology for this and for the delay in my reply. Feel free to write again if you have any suggestions regarding assurances about my and my wizard's safety or if you want more of the cherry cordials. Sincerely, Cam

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"Why do you even want to deal with Razmir? He's Lawful Evil, he's sending people to Hell as surely as Cheliax is."

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"I live in hope that - or, well, perhaps I am better described as being dead in hope that - he can be bribed. It doesn't look to me like he's specifically out to send people to Hell as a terminal goal, it looks like he chose a kind of dumbass and also incidentally evil way to up his personal standard of living. Also, like I said, better with us than against us."

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"And I guess he too is in the position of not getting you for very long if he enslaves us. 

 

 

All right."

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"I need more explicit language to go out and copy this celery basket and the blanket in Razmiran."

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"In the next five minutes you can make one copy of this basket and its contents in Razmiran."

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"Thanks. Feel free to eat the example snacks yourself if you like."

He steps out and telescopes Razmiran - it's getting a bit out of view now and he has to consult the peanut gallery's political maps as they're shopped onto pictures of the 1/10 scale model of Golarion to be sure he's got the right place, but then he can drop the basket pretty close to the ground in Thronestep.

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Then next time he checks his mail (provided this next time is in at least thirty minutes), a letter will be waiting for him!

Letter to Cam:

I am pleased that My suspicions have, in fact, been confirmed, and appreciative of these gifts.

Given My own personal interests, it would be stupendously foolish of Me to harm you when I could achieve all I desire without making a possibly-vengeful enemy with unknowable powers. Nonetheless, in the interests of a future relationship I have passed negotiating power on to Telriana, who possesses an alignment closer to Kofusachi's; should the god of prosperity speak with you, He will be more capable of confirming her honesty than He would Mine.

She will respond 're: cherry cordials'.

Signed,
Razmir, Living God of Razmiran, Sovereign of Melcat, Thorvyn, Gifhorn and Kodrigrad, Ascendant of the Thirty-First Step.

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Shortly afterwards!

Letter to Cam:

re: cherry cordials

Hello! This is Telriana; Razmir thought a Good person would be more convincing writing to you.

Razmir appreciates your gifts and says that He 'appreciates the confirmation', as He put it without explaining what it means.

The obvious suggestion for how to arrange negotiations (from my perspective) is that Axis still values material goods. If you plane shifted to the city of Aktun in Axis (your wizard may not be powerful enough, but you could hire a cleric from a Lawful Good god - or Abadar, who may be even more reliable - to Plane Shift you there) and sold a very large number of valuable material objects, you could get money in an Axis bank you could use to rent a room from a service providing secure conversations guaranteed nonviolent, which I have heard-unreliably-plus-have-confirmation-from-Razmir that Axis provides; Axis both takes Law very seriously and has exceptionally powerful inevitables who could provide security for such a meeting, and with enough money you could purchase an agreement for them to defend you and your wizard from Razmir if He were to break a contract to augment that personal wrath of Abadar that would fall on any contract-breakers.

If you have questions about Razmir, Razmiran, or myself, I am happy to explain more of the situation as I know it, but I don't at present have a good enough understanding of what you know to know what telling you would help.

Signed,
Telriana
Minister of Agriculture for Razmiran

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Cam shows these letters to Carissa.

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" - proposing an exchange in Aktun's a pretty - good sign, that's in fact probably the way to do high-stakes things without something going stupidly wrong. I wouldn't mind if you accepted."

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"How shall we get to Aktun?"

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"Lastwall was setting something up for us. Once they've arranged it we can - probably try to buy a Plane Shift from the Church of Abadar, that's probably simplest. 

 

Can Worldwound supply drops happen at this distance?"

 

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"Not as elegantly - I'm more likely to have things falling from the sky than appearing neatly on the ground - but yes, why?"

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"I'd like to do another one and I'd also like to be on the Moon whenever we're not in Axis, at least unless Razmir can get us some really good gear and maybe even then."

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"Sure. I can probably still reach at least half of the circumference, planetary rotation notwithstanding."

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"In the next five minutes, in open air near the Worldwound, you can make Worldwound care packages identical to the ones I authorized earlier up to twice the volume I authorized earlier."

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Cam steps out and squints into his scope and puts down more of the packages.

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"Thank you."

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"Anytime." He sits back down and tries some mango-involving hors d'oeuvre offered by one of the suits of clothes. "How long does this house thing last?"

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"More than a day and less than two unless Felandriel Morgethai can do some things no one knows about, which she definitely can, I just don't know if this is specifically one of them."

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"What will happen if we're in it when it's done?"

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"We will find ourselves instead on the moon right outside, uninjured."

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"In that case we should stay nearish each other while using it so you don't suffocate if it catches up by surprise."

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"I will prepare Air Bubble in the morning."

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"Does that work fast? Okay."

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"I would expect it to work adequately fast, yeah. No need to babysit me." And no plausible situation where he suddenly decides to impose conditions on air-related aid.

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Cam takes this as a brushoff. He goes and hangs out in the shuttle. Reads what the peanut gallery has to say. And also catches up on exotic food science.

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Carissa finds a bedroom in the sumptuous mansion and -

- plays with spellsilver a while just so she'll stop feeling too full of internal screaming to hear the sound of her own internal voice -

 

 


She does feel hurt, that Cam wrote to Lastwall, which wants to defeat the Chelish military and overthrow the Chelish government and forcibly convert the Chelish people. (She's less disconcerted about Sothis. Abadar doesn't start wars.) She feels hurt because - because they were talking about meeting in the middle, being allies, and so she wasn't being Asmodean with him, wasn't sending people instructions to pretend to be Abadarans and come meet Cam and then be given huge numbers of diamonds by him, and he was doing that to her, and that means that she was an idiot. It's exactly what you should expect to happen. Everything that happened makes perfect sense and somehow she hates that.

Cam doesn't see it as a betrayal, which - does matter, it is informative about whether he'll do things like it in the future but not about whether he'll do things he considers betrayals. But it's also informative about whether the broader proposition of people being allies ever means anything or actually works. 


Felandriel Morgethai didn't enslave her. Claimed that it was only partially about the fact she couldn't keep her without the protection of the Worldwound treaty, and was partially about not wanting to. ...and probably she in fact could've take Carissa to Heaven, where Lastwall thinks they could protect her from Wish-kidnapping. So probably Felandriel Morgethai really did have the option to Dominate Carissa, give Cam the power to dump as many diamonds on paladins as he wanted, and then send Carissa to Heaven to live our her life aging as slowly as Heaven could make her, and didn't do that. 

So probably it's overreacting to decide that the entire concept of people ever being allies doesn't mean anything and couldn't have. Though it's also possible there are some treaties against Heaven taking living prisoners, or that the Worldwound treaty binds Heaven where it doesn't Felandriel -

- she'll be agnostic, about whether you will ever not get stabbed in the back if you try to deal fairly with people who aren't treaty-bound not to betray you. 

 

She needs to repair her relationship with Cam regardless. It's going to be - very hard, but at some point that's not really an excuse. 

 

Maybe Razmir will, now that she's in fact protected by an elaborate treaty situation, be a perfectly good trading partner.

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Lastwall sends a cleric in the morning who can Plane Shift them both to Axis.

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"Are you the person whose job it is to pitch me on serving Heaven?"

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"We actually asked Iomedae and she said that we shouldn't do that, so, no, I'm not."

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" - sorry, you - asked Iomedae whether you should try to convince me to serve Heaven, and she said no?"

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"That's correct, yeah."

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" - why."

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"Presumably She thinks you shouldn't serve Heaven? Though it's possible you also need to find your own path there. You both have everything you need for the Plane Shift?"

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Cam has packed all his belongings except the shuttle itself in another celery basket! "I'm ready."

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"I'm ready. Does your Church usually find that people shouldn't serve Heaven."

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"Most people shouldn't serve Heaven! It's frequently really bad for them!" Plane Shift.

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Axis, even the bits of it permitted to mortals who might go back, is beautiful; dense and elaborate and encircled with trolley-cars and pierced through with skyscrapers and all of it clean and well-made and alive and -

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- okay this makes it make more sense that people are falling all over themselves to defect. She should really see Dis, first, before she decides, but - 

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"Hey!" the priest of Iomedae is saying to passing pedestrians. "Cam here is a really unusual kind of outsider that can make arbitrary material objects, and the three of us need a Teleport to, uh, just outside the First Vault, the negotiation is slightly more complicated than that implies but anyone interested?"

 

Someone is interested! "I can take people with me on a Teleport. Do the objects persist? Are they safe to eat?"

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"The objects persist, and they are as safe to eat as other objects of their kind."

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"Tonight's dinner course at Crothorila, mild spice no cucumbers, an actually ripe avocado, two hundred citrus varietals that tolerate humidity well, a replacement thirty-millimeter alignment chip for the Totavets-35 model plastics printer, a custom tailored ellissilk thirtieth-century-style ballroom dancing dress - Cassidi's style in Historical Vanity, if her plans are published open source, but I don't recall off the top of my head if they are - I guess it's fine if they're for sale, if they're less than twenty lis -"

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Cam writes this down. "You have 3D printers here? The mortal planet's barely Renaissance!"

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"There's nonintervention agreements, but I shouldn't've been able to tell you about anything you haven't heard of?"

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"I am not making this person who conveniently happened to be here a long list of stuff I haven't heard of which might be a fancy rephrasing of 'weapons Lastwall can use to destroy my homeland'."

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" - we wouldn't do that, we're Lawful Good," says the cleric. 

"I swear to you that I have never met any of you before and I want all this stuff for personal use except the citrus varietals which are a present for my girlfriend," the Axis inhabitant says. 

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"The dinner is fine, the avocado is fine, the citrus varietals are fine."

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"Is she in charge here for some reason?"

    "She gets to veto spending," says the cleric. 

"Okay. Can you do the dinner for two, and the citrus varietals and the avocado, and we'll call it even?"

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"Yes, though if you don't have plant pots or dishes I will have to be creative."

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"In the next five minutes, you may make the man ceramic plant pots and dishes."

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"Is right here okay by you?" Cam asks.

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"I'm gonna put them in my bag of holding, but if you can't make across a dimensional boundary then here's fine I guess."

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"I don't actually know if I can, let me see the bag and I'll try putting your avocado in it?"

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It's his snazzy leather handbag. He opens it.

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Avo?

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Cado!

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"Oh yay."

He finds a list of citruses and sorts them by humidity tolerance. "The pots will do more good if I can also put dirt in them," he mentions to Carissa.

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"In the next five minutes you can put dirt of the kind you'd find in Cheliax in the pots."

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"- I don't know what kinds of dirt there are in Cheliax or if citruses like any of it!"

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"And I don't know that if I say dirt in general you won't do something.... poisoned by the spaceship in Numeria that gives everyone who's nearby it tumors!"

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"I'm not going to give this dude radioactive dirt!"

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" - from my perspective this is not obvious and it's not obvious how many things like that there are that a hookup at the Worldwound didn't happen to tell me about."

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"Potting soil of the kind I would grow a lemon tree in if I didn't want the lemon tree to grow any tumors or anything!"

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"Is that in fact an adequate specification, I don't know, because you haven't actually explained to me how to do this safely because then I'd be less exploitable!"

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"Doing it safely is complicated and mostly assumes that you have frontloaded much of the work in the binding of the circle!" says Cam, raining plates of food from the chosen restaurant into the bag of holding. "This random article I found recommends sandy loam, but since I don't know enough about soil to know what ratio of sand to loam you want or if there are importantly different kinds, I was just going to duplicate their second recommendation, which is apparently composed of... peat moss, perlite, vermiculite and, and some guy named Zubban's homemade blend of compost."

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"Sorry, I don't know what most of those are. In the next five minutes you can do peat moss."

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"Perlite and thermiculite are both naturally occurring minerals that wouldn't do you any harm unless you tried to breathe them."

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"According to you!"

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"Why in the fuck would I - if I were trying to slip something past you I'd - ugh - can you arrange your own potting soil," Cam says despairingly to the random Axis person, "she's having a bit of a week and I'm not sure she'll even let me make the citruses if we run out the clock."

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"- yeah, I can get some potting soil."

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"I will include the peat moss so they don't dry out or anything but recommend swapping it for something better earliest convenience, it probably doesn't have the right pH or something all by itself." Pots of citruses.

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"Thanks," the man says, and extends his hand for the Teleport.

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Handholding. What an embarrassing conversation to have to have in public.

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Agreed on that.

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And then they can be brought to purchased safety; in the heart of Abadar's domain no one who has paid Him for protection is getting Wish-kidnapped to Hell.

 

"- Abadar wants the complete writings of your universe, and to know how much space to prepare for it," the cleric of Iomedae says.

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"Well, depends, there are 3D printers, does he also go in for computerized media?"

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"Any format known to you will be fine."

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Cam gestures a substantial but not, like, house-sized, space.

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Then this will be arranged for him. 

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"In the next five minutes you can make Abadar's payment." Carissa trusts that if it is poisoned and gives you tumors Abadar can handle that.

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Bam. Big ol' storage rack of the Library of Hell.

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"That is very cool," says Carissa, since she is trying to not antagonize Cam, here.

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"Anytime."

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"Do you want to give me your word that you won't try to make things out of line with my intent with permissions? You'd still have to convince me your word means something to you but we could try for that."

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"I have no idea how to convince you of that, leaving aside that I would still like to have a better BATNA than 'sit down and cross my arms and wait for someone to murder you' if we come to an impasse."

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So, no, he doesn't want to promise to not fuck with permissions, so she's completely right to be extremely careful with them and it's ridiculous to feel guilty when this is inconvenient. "Understood."

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"A narrower version would work, like if you'd have believed me if I said 'I am not fucking with you with respect to potting soil'."

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"- sure, that might save us some time. Why should I believe you when you say you're not fucking with me?"

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"If I were untrustworthy on this subject I'd have just said 'sure, I won't try to make things out of line with your intent' and merrily retained the ability to drop potatoes on people whenever I wished, wouldn't I? I'm not claiming to be axiomatically incapable of breaking my word or anything but it is not, in a normal person sense, a thing I do."

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"If you had said that, I would have asked the exact same question of why I should believe you!"

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"Well, Abadar's the guy with the truth telling magic, isn't he?"

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"Yeah. We can have someone in to cast a truth spell, if you're willing to pay them."

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"I am willing to pay them but if we have to have an excruciating potting-soil related argument first I would sooner not do it in the middle of the street."

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"- noted, I guess? We can tell them to send their payment requests in advance so we can work it out in advance."

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"Yeah, that works."

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"Can I help you guys with anything else?" says the cleric of Iomedae.

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"I'm not super clear on our next steps here. Or if we can expect everyone around to speak Taldane."

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"Most people here won't speak Taldane, though in a crowd there'll generally be some who do. I think Carissa also has Tongues. If you wanted to trade with Razmir for powerful magic items, his delegates could meet you here, or if you're more paranoid than that drop items off here. If you want to talk to people, we can generally bring them here to you.

The Church of Iomedae is - expending significant resources to help keep you both safe, and we would appreciate the compensation you'd give the Church of Abadar for that."

 

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" - and how much would you say that would be?"

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"On this short notice I'd charge seven, eight thousand pounds for this."

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"You can make her five ounces of spellsilver, if you'd like," she says to Cam.

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Five ounces of spellsilver, in canola oil in a sugar vial.

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"I do think," says the cleric, taking it, "that most people who shouldn't serve Heaven should probably go to Axis or the Maelstrom or Elysium or Nirvana. There's just - not really any reason to go to Hell instead of one of those. Hell won't respect your commitment. They'll think you're stupid for it."

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"I have noticed that Axis seems to have a lot to recommend itself. I assume you prefer Heaven over Axis because you think otherwise people you care about will be conquered by Hell, and I feel kind of similarly except I'm scared they'll be destroyed by Heaven."

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"- look, wars happen when it's not obvious who'll win. When it is obvious who'll win, the losing side just surrenders. We'll war with Hell either way. With more resources, we might not have to destroy it."

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"So you admit that you might."

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"- yes! Hell is really really bad! We absolutely might! But if we can afford not to, we won't."

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"I was wondering if you had some sort of approach in mind that would bloodlessly take Cheliax, fix Hell, that sort of thing, without killing people, if you came by enough material objects."

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" - I don't know what all it's possible to do. That's - definitely what we'd aspire to -

- actually, you know what we'd need, to find a way to fix Hell, is -

 

 

- I'll have someone write you."

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"'fixing' Hell sounds like something I might be on board with!"

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"I sincerely hope you are and also I actually think this conversation is at this point above my clearance level and I'm going to Plane Shift directly to Heaven and escalate it."

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"Are we just supposed to stand around or is there some way we can, like, rent a place."

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"This whole building is all yours! You are welcome to furnish it and so on, you can hire people if you want."

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"Am I welcome to furnish it and so on," says Cam. "Am I welcome to furnish it if and only if I can verify that there are only four structurally important ingredients in all the furniture I would be copying and that they are all things you know about or will you take my assurance that I am not fucking with you about the furniture."

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"If we can get a truth spell in here and a better operationalization of 'fucking with' I'll take the truth spell about whether you're fucking with me about the furniture."

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"Where would we hire such a convenience?"

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"I haven't actually been to Aktun before. Probably if you stick your head out the door and shout you'll get a bidder; it's Aktun."

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Cam puts down his celery basket and gestures toward the door at Carissa. Since she can veto spending.

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"Obviously I'm willing to negotiate payment for a truth spell, though ideally the payment would come after the truth spell, so that you could pledge under the truth spell that you aren't going to exploit that specific permission."

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"Okay, but you should be the one to loudly announce what we are paying for a truth spell since I would have to yell 'any food you want or you can try to convince this prickly wizard to be flexible if you want a different material object'."

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"- I really don't expect people in Aktun of all places to be bothered by extended payment negotiations? But sure, we can pay in food." She will go try to flag down someone who has a truth spell and is willing to be paid in food.

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"- yeah, I can do a truth spell for a box of chocolates like the big green one in the store window at First Confectionery."

"I can't do the box unless you convince her," says Cam.

"Okay, the contents of a box like that."

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Truth Spell!

 

"Are there any circumstances under which you would claim you aren't fucking with me about a conjuration authorization but you would, if I phrase it badly enough, use it to threaten or incapacitate me, or to give weapons to my enemies, or to give information to my enemies, or to give aid or material support to my enemies?"

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"- how broadly am I to construe 'your enemies' here? Are random people here, or in Bachuan, or whatever, your enemies? Is my mom your enemy? Is my musician buddy your enemy?"

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"Let's say, people who you have substantial reason to suspect work for a god or an organization or a person that might invade Cheliax or Hell if you give them the resources to do so."

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"Bearing in mind that I am imperfect at tracking which of my authorizations are operative in any given thing, and, for example, would not notice if I ran out of paper budget from my first authorization and then had to switch over to a second authorization, I don't think so."

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"Are you willing to agree to tell me if authorizations you're asking for will let you do something you can't currently do which you don't expect I intend?"

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"That sounds incredibly tedious so I would be more willing to do that if you did more of the work - your 'next five minutes' thing helps, though it puts me slightly in a hurry and twenty would usually accomplish the same, 'in unoccupied air' also helps."

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"I am willing to say those things reliably. Given that are you willing to alert me of other things?"

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"Insofar as I think of such things, which I mostly won't if I'm thinking about how to furnish a building, but yeah, I can tell you any I have in mind."

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"Is there anything else you want to reassure me about?"

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"I would have to be very very hard pressed to use my ability to knock you unconscious because you didn't give me permission to treat any adverse reactions you might have and I don't know if you care to guard your consciousness with my concern for your life but it's what's happening. I am not planning to screw over random people we are trading with by giving them booby-trapped stuff."

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"Thank you. Do you see any problems with letting you make copies of extant boxes of chocolates in unoccupied air for the next twenty minutes?"

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"I guess I could drop one on your head if I thought it was funny, or pay anyone else who happens to want boxed chocolates for things you could conceivably not want me to buy, or... look up chocolate boxes from daeva chocolatiers who can eat things that aren't safe for humans and try to convince you to eat antifreeze, which I wouldn't do but could."

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"- wouldn't just for the other reasons not to kill me?"

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"I guess if I urgently wanted to kill you and did not have any other way to do it I might resort to poisoning you with antifreeze but it's an awful way to go and also it takes hours and hours so I'd be hypothetically betting on you not being able to seek medical attention."

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"Okay. If you make a copy of the chocolate box from the front of the store that guy asked for, we have fewer problems?"

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"As far as I know, yeah. Though maybe dead people eat antifreeze here too, I wouldn't know, so maybe you shouldn't have any."

"We don't eat antifreeze," says the petitioner.

"You're not missing much."

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"All right, you can make the chocolate box he specified. Do you want to ask anything of me while the spell is up?"

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Chocolate box! "Are you planning to put one over on me in any way?"

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"Not really! I thought about it to get back at you for doing it to me but all the people I'd want to deal with in secret are in fact dangerous and might fuck me over, and I really want to not get killed and fix the Worldwound and not get everyone I know killed so I have no such plans."

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"Are there plausible circumstances where you'd attempt it?"

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"Not if I'd promised not to, obviously. If I haven't - then if I learned you'd slipped resources to somebody to invade Cheliax or Hell I'd probably try to slip some to Cheliax in response. If I thought either Cheliax or Hell were likely to be destroyed if I didn't do anything."

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"Okay, while the spell's up, I do not want anyone who prefers to live to die if there are other reasonable options, with of course the relevant caveat that leaving other people to want to die and unable to do so is in no way a reasonable option and that is my suspicion about the typical quivering flesh cube."

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" - they don't want to die, dead outsiders don't go anywhere, they just stop existing."

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"Well, if you want to change my opinion on this I guess we could try to find a way to securely interview a flesh cube? There are daeva who want to die and they're not even flesh cubes, it's not that bizarre. They can't, but they can be kept unconscious, so there are some people keeping them under."

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" - why would they want to die?"

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"They don't like being alive and nothing they have tried has solved this problem."

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"That doesn't make any sense."

 

 

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"Well, I said it under a truth spell and told you what to try to change my mind. What would a fully informed version of myself advise me to ask you?"

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"I believe you, I just - it's horrible, and it doesn't make any sense given anything else I know, and I don't know what to think of it. I guess we can - ask some petitioners from Hell if they'd rather stop existing, it seems - important - and I could have someone torture me like they will in Hell? I don't know if anyone but devils can do that or if they'd agree to for enough payment and living people are too weak to really benefit but it would - still be informative, maybe -"

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"I don't like this plan - like, I acknowledge your self-ownership and such but it seems at minimum inconveniencing while and possibly after conducting the experiments."

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"Yeah, it will be massively inconvenient and maybe impossible. But - I don't really see myself changing my mind about - whether I'm better off alive than not-alive - unless torture in Hell is really different from just normal torture."

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"Have you considered that you might be weird?"

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"Sure, but I don't see reason to think I'm so wildly weird that most other people want to be dead instead of alive just because they're getting tortured! That's not - a little weird, that's - a completely alien species!"

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"...well, how sure are you of your parentage?"

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He's joking. She's almost sure and she's not going to embarrass herself by taking him seriously when he's joking. 

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"I guess that's one theory."

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Shrug. "I think you're weird and will persist in this belief until presented with evidence about statistically interesting numbers of people from Golarion who are not you but I will try to bear in mind that if I encounter you in your flesh cube chrysalis you probably don't want a mercy-kill without at least checking in first."

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"That is upsetting to think about but thank you I guess!"

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"You're welcome! So. What would a fully informed version of myself advise me to ask you?"

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"How to get me to defect, presumably. What would a fully informed version of myself ask you?"

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"How to send me home, maybe?"

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"That can be done without dying? I - 

- actually can't really think of any circumstances under which I'd want to? Maybe I could ask you for a lot of diamonds for me in exchange for a lot of humanitarian aid for the world and then retire to Axis in comfort but - 

- there's a lot of bad things about the world, right, and I'm not actually so weak that I'll quit."

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"If we can come to an agreement about which bad things we can accomplish a lot! Technology jump and diamonds and spellsilver and infrastructure!"

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"Yes! So I don't want to send you home unless you're dead set on giving weapons to my country's enemies!"

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"Inconvenient that you are from the most aggressively nonhumanitarian country on there. Probably we'd have a grand time if instead we were terraforming Mars or bringing resources to Limbo."

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"We can fix Cheliax. Just not by destroying it."

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"What would you like to do with it?"

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"...rule it? Isn't that what anyone would want to do?"

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"I guess it seems like an obvious contender but you need policies and a transition plan and advisors and shit, what's your strategy there?"

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"Well before things escalated my plan was to over the course of the next five years close the Worldwound and then re-establish Sarkoris there as a country that was very rich because of all your help, and over the course of those five years identify good advisors and minions and so on. Now things have escalated and that leaves me with wildly fewer options. If I were handed the crown in Cheliax tomorrow I'd definitely die of it in short order. Razmir - might be helpful with this, actually? He runs a country, ninth circle wizards are useful allies."

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"I do look forward to our meeting. Uh, he runs a theocracy, what are you going to do with respect to state religion?"

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"I'm not going to make a country I run worship someone who isn't actually a god. It's not doing them any favors in the actual afterlife they go to which won't be Razmir's because he's not a god. I can be diplomatic about it, though."

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"Yes I just mean are you going to do the Asmodeanism thing."

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"If Heaven's going to win in the long run then it'd be - a disservice to people - to make them a shape Heaven can't use."

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"...I guess that's one way of looking at it."

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"Correspondingly, though, if Hell's going to win in the long run it's a disservice to people to make them a shape Hell can't use."

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"Well, you can only get me to participate in one of these aims short of mind control. Under what circumstances do you suppose I might wind up mind controlled?"

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"If someone with access to Dominate Monster who isn't on your side already and isn't a signatory to the Worldwound treaty gets within range of you."

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"Might you wind up encouraging this?"

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"If I promised not to, then I wouldn't. Absent that yeah, if I suspected you were smuggling my enemies the resources to fight Cheliax and I didn't have another way to stop you without dying."

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"Will you promise not to?"

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"Will you promise not to try to give Cheliax's enemies the weapons to overthrow it?"

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"I think... you... have been planning to overthrow it... which might get you declared an enemy of Cheliax if you aren't already."

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"We can work out the exact wording later, but I want assurances about Lastwall and the forces of Good and I guess also Galt or Molthune or any other neighbors of Cheliax that'd go to war with it if they had enough resources."

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"I will not secretly smuggle resources that I don't expect to get better results than a conventional invasion?" he suggests.

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"If you have something good in mind you can convince me of it! I don't want you to smuggle resources at all!"

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"I don't currently have that much confidence in your judgment of what results would be good."

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"Then it sounds like we do not want to make each other deescalatory promises yet. If you made a deescalatory promise, would you exact-words it - would you do things that went against what you knew was my understanding of your promise, but which you could argue was technically a possible interpretation of it?"

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"Uh - maybe but probably only if it turned out I'd made the promise under a really important misapprehension?"

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"Would you break it?"

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"Given an even larger misapprehension, like, 'I have been being mindcontrolled all this time' or 'the information from back home is being faked somehow' or 'there is this entire other planet neither of us knew existed and conditions are wildly different there than we were taking as background when making promises, for some reason'?"

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"Maybe we could spell all those possibilities out in advance as part of the promise."

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The Zone of Truth runs out and their caster absconds with the chocolate box.

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"If I were confident that I could come up with a complete list, absolutely! We could probably do like, I don't know, a whitelist, that the promise stands if I discover you have eaten a baby or whatever, etcetera."

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"I think I'd want 'unless you are presently being mind controlled, the information you're able to conjure systematically falsified, etcetera.'...actually I think I'd want a fancy headband from Razmir to even start on this, so you should get to work on that."

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"Well, we can send for him whenever you're ready."

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"I'll do a Sending." So she does, to Telri, giving the address in Aktun.

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And in a few minutes, someone will knock on the door!

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Cam will go answer it!

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Telriana of Kyonin, Minister of Agriculture for Razmiran, is an elf of about average-for-a-human height, sensibly dressed for long walks in the wilderness, equipped with an aura of I-am-fading-into-the-background and a bunch of magic items. Cam will mostly just recognize that she is wearing a bunch of magic items; Carissa, over his shoulder, can recognize among others the quite powerful Wisdom headband, the inevitable Ring of Sustenance, and what looks remarkably like - if not quite exactly identical to - an actual Amulet of the !@#$ing Planes mostly tucked into her shirt, only it can't be an Amulet of the Planes because it looks brand new and most of the surviving Amulets are ancient and knocking around the collections of ridiculously wealthy monarchs, retired adventurers, elder dragons and suchlike.

"Hello! I think the password is re: cherry cordials?"

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Carissa will goggle enviously from over in the corner.

 

(It's not actually impossible that Razmir could make an Amulet of the Planes. It's the kind of thing no one can do, but...every archmage can do at least three impossible things...)

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"That wasn't specifically intended to be a password but it doesn't hurt. Hello, I'm Cam, and this is Carissa."

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"Telriana of Kyonin, Minister of Agriculture and general speaker-to-do-gooders of Razmiran!" she says, and walks in. "Hello, Cam, hello, Carissa."

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"Welcome to our humble abode which I have not furnished yet. How did you come to work for Razmir? I liked his letter but I'm also very new to dividing people up by alignment at all."

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"Furnishing it is a demonstration that you are who you claim to be, if you have any ideas!"

"And - Kyonin does not really have problems, other than the problem that at some point someone will inevitably conquer us and wipe out our civilization and the problem of a perpetual demon invasion, and they're both kind of stalemated and have been going on for long enough that I couldn't think of anything useful to do there on either of them. So I decided to go where there were a lot of problems that were new and open to being worked on, and that ended up being Razmiran! And I've been trying to fix them ever since. With, uh, some success, on the famine-mitigation front."

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"I would love to mitigate your famine, by the by. Though possibly after first flippantly remarking that democracy is remarkably protective against famine according to my data. Carrisa can I do furniture for the next ten minutes or something no fuckery intended."

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"You can make furniture in unoccupied air in this building for the next ten minutes."

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Then Cam will traipse - insofar as he can traipse - around making furniture, mostly like what he has in his house.

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"If you can just make people bread, preferably something nutritionally balanced and healthy and long-lasting - I can give you examples - and fill up the granaries with it, that would be wonderful. If you've got more precision making it in the villages would be pretty significant - Razmiran's distribution skills are not great - but they aren't actually that bad -"

"- The actual problem is that about a quarter of the world's agricultural production comes from druids and clerics of Erastil and Gozreh and so forth casting Plant Growth to bring health to the fields and Razmir declared that all clerics of gods that don't accept his divinity were persona non grata in Razmiran, so food production dropped by a quarter. My job is mostly just a matter of finding lots of druids and rangers and shamans and oracles and so forth and so on who don't care about the gods and can not insult Razmir while inside his country, and persuading them that if anyone in Razmiran tries to hassle them while they fix the food problem the wrath of the Living God will land on whoever's messing with the food supply. Which to be clear it will."

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" - what does Cheliax do?"

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"Cheliax lost a third of its population in the civil war and hasn't gotten most of it back yet, for this among other reasons."

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Carissa does not know there to be a civil war in which Cheliax lost a third of its population and this is an embarrassing thing to admit. She'll - nod.

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"I can have reasonably good precision even at a distance if I have a little robot there reporting its position to me, and I went to medical school and can do all kinds of enriched grain products and suchlike. And seeds, better seeds - and fertilizer, or better yet the Haber-Bosch process, let me actually just explain that to you right now, you don't need super high tech stuff -" He pulls up an article on it. "You have comprehend languages?"

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"Yup!"

She'll read over his shoulder. "- I'm a little worried about messing with seeds on a very large scale at first, we'll probably want to start with just food storage, but all this sounds good - what's ammonia and what do you use it for? -"

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"One nitrogen three hydrogens - I'm not sure how to usefully answer this question if that doesn't mean anything to you - and it's good for getting nitrogen into the soil, which is also what planting beans in between other stuff is for if you know about that?"

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"I know about beans - sorry, I'm not an alchemist at all, Razmir might know this or you might need a specialist, all I've got is that these are very small bits of stuff of defined specific types - but I do get why making beans obsolete is huge -"

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"I mean, they're still a great source of protein, but it's nice for farmers to be able to specialize harder."

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"Absolutely! But - Kyonin, people have balanced diets, Razmiran they don't, yes people are taller in Kyonin and it's not just the elfiness but also in Razmiran so many people are starving. We have refugees coming from the east into Razmiran because their home countries are being invaded by Galt, and they do not have any food, and there is already almost no food to give them! And I think it's much more important that they have any food than that it be very healthy food, so I've been pushing a lot more on that." 

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"You are absolutely right to do so! Calories then fat and protein then micronutrients, but, like, with a level of urgency that remembers that if you skip all the micronutrients everyone will be cretins dying of scurvy."

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"If you can give me just full lists of what all of those are and what foods you find them in that will honestly be huge, I'm getting mostly just general categories here - okay I am not surprised that the reason that elves are smarter than anyone else is that everyone else is eating badly given how short they are but it's still something I didn't know yet -"

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"I mean, I can't rule out elves just being lucky, but yeah, if people aren't eating you're leaving a lot of value on the ground -" He pulls up his nutrition notes. "Calories you know, you get them from carbohydrates - starches and sugar - or from protein - meat, beans, eggs, milk - or from fat - oil, butter, lard - alcohol - not an efficient use of grain, it has calories but it has fuckall else and is bad for you for other reasons - and you can live without carbohydrates but not without protein or fat, but you probably don't want to because grain is cheap and tasty. Micronutrients - vitamins and minerals -" He can go into lecture mode on this.

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Telri is just going to inhale this until he stops talking. Partway through she'll start taking notes in Elvish.

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Good people are really annoying. 

 

"I have already given Cam permission to make food."

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"Yes, but it will be long run ideal if they also know how to make food, I can't be everywhere at once!"

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"You can be on the moon and hit everyone at once!"

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"No, I can be on the moon and hit roughly half the people at once with terrible aim and the risk of dropping a sack of potatoes on someone's head if I do it in large enough packages to not be really inconvenient to collect at scale!"

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"Even commoners don't die of that! - I want a top-tier headband," she adds to Telri.

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"- I'm sorry, Carissa," Telri says, switching over immediately and soberly to Sane Diplomat mode. "The interests of Razmir here are almost certainly served by making you a Greater Headband of Intelligence, but I did not as it happens bring it with me; Razmir or his clerics can Plane Shift or Gate your payment over to a secure landing space in Axis once we've negotiated a deal."

She'll pause.

"My interests here are that I want everyone not to go hungry, and that I want to serve Razmir's interests, because he's my boss. Razmir's interests here are, roughly, that he slightly wants to have more of Cam's luxuries, definitely wants to trade vast quantities of terrifyingly powerful magic items for even vaster quantities of spell components and spellsilver, and though I have not had orders to say this specific thing and also tremendously wants - but is probably not prepared to tremendously pay for - knowledge of who Cam is, where he's from, and why he's here. I suspect the second one is most relevant to your side of the affair, but it's also fairly likely I'm missing something?"

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She seems quite happy to criticize her boss. Good people: still weird. Well, unLawful Good people. Iomedaeans don't criticize their boss like that.

"Is he going to do anything terrible with the spell components and spellsilver, Cam won't want to give it to him if he is."

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"It's true, I won't."

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"So he's most obviously going to use them to make lots of terrifyingly powerful magical items, and also lots of wands and minor wondrous items, some of which will probably go to his army, and to have his wizards and clerics cast Permanency and other permanent-competence-increasing spells and useful support magic, which will strengthen his army as well as his populace but is not terrible if you don't think his army will be used for causes you disapprove of. He's also going to use them for Planar Bindings, some of which will absolutely be for outsiders doing terrible things, since he sometimes summons kytons. If you want him to not summon any more kytons than he would without your trades he will do that, if you want him to stop summoning kytons altogether he will sell you that, Razmir quite wants to trade magic items for spellsilver and does not particularly care what kinds of outsiders he summons other than that he wants to employ them cheaply and have them obey his orders."

"His chief geostrategic goal right now, which anything that helps him would aid, is that he'd rather not fight a war with Galt because they can beat his armies and all he could do would be to turn Isarn into a crater, and I think the stronger he visibly is the less likely this war is to take place and the more likely Cyprian is to invade anywhere else, but right now if the next - uh, not sure what the Taldane is, big war covering most of the continent? - breaks out he will either stay neutral or fight on the side of Cheliax because they're Galt's main rival, and Cam will probably disapprove of that because most everyone who isn't Asmodean and doesn't neighbor Galt does, but I don't think getting him spellsilver will make him more likely to start a war rather than less."

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"Is summoning kytons particularly bad, can you only summon them if you want them to do bad stuff? You can't make them dig ditches?"

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"They want to cause suffering because they're kytons. You probably want to pay him to not summon kytons, unless I guess they get up to worse when unemployed in the Material in which case you want to pay him to summon kytons. I am against general war in Avistan and fine with Razmir being stronger if it happens."

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Cam asks the peanut gallery if they happen to know what kytons get up to when they're not on summon. "Me too probably! Can I like, pay Cyprian off or anything, what's the diplomatic sitch there?"

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" - When Galt seceded from Cheliax, it had the world's best army, which is how it seceded, and an empty treasury. Cyprian was the best general, which he parleyed into being chosen as their new technically-not-king, and he's very popular back home is because he wins lots of wars, which he says is about freeing the people of Druma and the River Kingdoms from their tyrannical rulers and establishing new rational, benevolent states with enlightened government, but in fact means making his friends puppet monarchs who pay tribute to Galt. So Galt makes war pay for itself, and because Cyprian is really spectacularly good as a general, this will probably keep happening until he dies or the next general war breaks out, when everyone will pick sides depending on whether they're more scared of him or of Cheliax. I don't know if you can bribe him to stop or not and given how Galt works I don't know if he'll be overthrown if he ever stops winning battles or not."

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(The version Carissa heard was quite different but she doesn't know if it was in any sense true.)

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"I'd say 'maybe he and Cheliax can go down at each other's throats' but with afterlives on the line it's a different matter, my afterlives don't work anything like these. Oh well. I don't think making Razmir better able to defend his borders is so obviously a bad idea that I'm unwilling to countenance it."

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"He's Lawful, you can presumably even be like 'these are only for border defense' and get that. I think trading him lots of spellsilver for lots of finished products is a great idea for us.

 

...is that an Amulet of the Planes," she asks Telri.

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"Razmir says technically not, because amulets of the planes are overcomplicated luxuries designed by a madman, and this one uses a tuning rod to aim and has per-day charges instead of trying to make you go to an arbitrary plane by sheer force of will and thus sticking yourself with a one-in-twenty chance of stranding yourself in Abaddon.

... But yes, sort of."

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"I want to work for him. Is that a terrible idea? You do it."

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"Razmir is a fantastically good wizard and somewhere in the middle of the mortal-to-god scale and the planet's best wondrous items crafter and easy to persuade to do good whenever it doesn't cost Him anything and I get along with Him very well and He'd probably be happy to have you, and He also burned down the main port on Lake Encarthan because He was angry. Like, to be clear, this wasn't a rational calculated strategic decision, He was just really, really pissed that He outgunned them so much and they still wouldn't surrender. We have a severe emigration crisis of everyone with enough Wisdom to be a cleric because they are too Wise to work for Him. I do not intend to betray him and am quite happy with my decision to work for Him, but, I am expecting to get asked 'did you lie at any point in this conversation' under a Zone of Truth spell before I leave so I do feel compelled to give you this warning."

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"Wow, I have never in my life felt so torn," she says completely sincerely. 

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"Are there not... magic items... to help with emotional regulation... if he's depressed or anxious I have good drugs for that but a short fuse is much harder to address pharmacologically..."

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"That's what Wisdom-boosting headbands are for, but Wisdom and Intelligence go on the same headband and wizardry is completely Intelligence-dependent, and he's recently had higher priorities than replacing his old Intelligence-and-Charisma-and-various-secondary-effects-he-doesn't-advertise-to-me headband with one with all three." Like trying to solve immortality! "He has an IOUN stone for it but it isn't as powerful as a strong headband."

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"You could give him five diamonds on the condition he enhance Wisdom with them."

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"Could I? Marvelous, would he like that, Telriana?"

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"He will be offended! And also do it, and be glad he did it. Just, still offended."

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"Perhaps I could give him more diamonds for the exclusive use in enhancing stats generally construed?"

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"He will be more and very happy with that offer!"

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" - will he do us too? Is it safe to be near him for that?"

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Wag wag wag!

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"For spellsilver, definitely! Most of the cost is the diamond. And - I'd expect so, especially if his Wisdom is already enhanced."

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"What's your best guess of the provocation he'd need to instead decide to Dominate us? Including 'Cheliax may have requested this of him'."

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"I think Razmir doesn't want to declare war on you and Cam because Cam has strange unknown abilities with no known limits and that might be picking a fight even a demigod would rather not pick! I can theoretically imagine that Cheliax could bribe Him a sufficiently huge amount to do that if you didn't have a Lawful agreement in advance drawn up, but it would probably take 'direct support for ascension to full godhood as a power independent of Asmodeus' plus a contract too theologically simple for Asmodeus to be willing to affix His name on it, and I doubt they could pay Razmir enough to break His alignment, being Lawful is extremely valuable if you're Evil."

"... If you start mocking Him to His face He might lose control."

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" - all right. In that case I think we both want to be Wished up to be smarter and better in every way, please." On this she expects that she and Cam agree.

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"Sounds exciting."

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"Razmir is happy to sell you this! It might take Him a week or three, just because of how many ninth-circle spells that is? And I do recommend having Him start on His Wisdom first."

"... Razmir absolutely wants enormous quantities of diamonds, rubies, and spellsilver in exchange. Also everything else on this shopping list." She can provide the shopping list; it has a lot of stuff on it.

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Cam starts to skim the list for bad ideas. "What are the rubies for?"

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"They're a spell component for a lot of different spells and magic items," she says, "if not as many as diamonds. Also he needs them for a secret classified project that I am fairly confident isn't harmful to your interests."

Other things on the list include specific mixes of incense and of various natural oils?

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"Is the incense and oil for having a spa day or is that magic too?"

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"Everything He wants that much of is magic. Most of the luxury stuff He wants boils down to 'stuff you know how to make that He doesn't even know He wants yet.'"

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"How many back-and-forths of 'you can have this if you promise to use it for that' are we going to need before it's remotely a good idea to go to Razmiran where I can do things like install electricity in his house?"

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"One meeting with oaths of - colloquial language - not picking fights without giving the others time to evacuate, especially with each other - under zone of truth with everyone present in Axis under Abadar's protection and with one of His strongest outsiders observing it and very stringent terms. We finish this meeting, Razmir draws up a contract, I hop it back and forth a few times making corrections, we visit Aktun and everyone signs and swears."

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"Acceptable to me in broad terms, I suspect."

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"Sounds all right to me. I might have people back home help me evaluate the wording."

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"Can I ask you what home is, or would that need to wait for the contract?"

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"Oddly enough we call it 'Hell' but it's really very nice. Everybody there is my species, so I can send them letters same way people can send me letters."

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" - Right. And all the impossible things you know how to build...?"

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"Advanced technology. The magic just creates them, they had to be invented the long way, but I can copy."

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"We wanted to know if Razmir's sold any Dominate Monster scrolls, or would do so. If it won't cause tremendous offense to ask."

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"To the best of my knowledge he has not done so this week. I non-confidently suspect he has ever done so. I expect he would not sell them to anyone he thought was Cheliax, because then Cheliax would have better odds of Dominating Cam and taking over the world."

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"How good is his discernment of who is and is not Cheliax?"

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"Fantastic question, but whatever the answer is I do not expect he is currently selling anyone Dominate Monster scrolls, just because he doesn't want anyone to be able to Dominate you and possibly take over the world, that's where his summer home is."

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"In this we have a common aim."

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"All right, then. Anything else we need to cover before I explain to Razmir that you're very interested in his pitch and we start working on the contract? Do you want to get a Zone of Truth on me to confirm I'm not lying about anything relevant?"

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"If Razmir were lying it'd probably be by sending a misinformed you, but sure."

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"Yeah, seems right," she agrees, and will attempt to obtain a local Axis-person who can cast Zone of Truth on this claim. (Assuming Cam is willing to pay?)

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Carissa will authorize payment if not being fucked with.

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Cam is prepared to not fuck with her about giving this random Axis person some Earth books.

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Then Telri can say under Zone of Truth "I made no statements intended to deceive and I know of no false statements I made", get that confirmed, trigger her amulet, and disappear!

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"A productive conversation." Wag wag.

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"I want so many impossible magic items."

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"Like what? I need to know what I should ask for for myself."

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Carissa like a normal person with infinite money wants a good headband and a good cloak of resistance and robes of the archmagi and an amulet of the planes and boots of teleport and immunity to poisoning (she suspects this would make it harder, perhaps impossible, for Cam to drug her, since she can't otherwise stop him).

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Cam wants... a lot of things that normally come in ring form, apparently, hopefully Razmir will be able to combine or reslot things since APPARENTLY growing more arms won't even help. Spell Turning and Delayed Doom seem the most urgent. Cloak of Resistance. He'll be very swooshy. He can't wait to hear from Razmir or the Iomedans, whichever come first.

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The Iomedans request a bunch of....Hell-internal contract law, when they next write, and that this request not be disclosed to anyone to the extent that's possible.

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Okay... and how is he supposed to deliver it, pay a random Axis-dweller in potato chips?

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If that's the best option he's got? It sounds extremely hard for them to actually use, maybe Carissa will approve books if they're not against her interests? (This isn't. This is a desperate search for Hell-related solutions Carissa will fund because they're acceptable to her.)

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"Carissa, can I make books to pay Axis people with, no fuckery - I don't know if people in Axis even want books or if they can just go to the library whenever, but in case -"

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"I will probably approve that in specific cases?"

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"I got a confidential request for some written materials and I wanna get it couriered."

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"In exchange for what?"

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"- I don't have a courier lined up, I was going to go out and holler that it could be food or books, if you okayed books."

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"- I don't expect to object to methods of paying the couriers but I didn't know you to have authorization to send anybody more written materials."

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"- I mean, I can make them in book form, it doesn't have to be a separate authorization."

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" - you want to pay couriers in order to run someone's requested written materials to them, right?"

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"Yes, that is what I'm asking for, I'm sorry if I have been confusing somehow."

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"The thing that is confusing is where you got the authorization for the written materials you will be paying the courier to deliver. Because I tried to only give you scoped permission to write things."

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"Oh. I mean, I can make edible paper if I have to, but we were trying to be slightly more cooperative."

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"When you said, 'no fuckery', what did you mean by that, exactly?"

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"I am not going to use the authorization to make books to pay Axis residents in order to drop books on your head or put them in your breakfast cereal or exchange books for, I don't know, cursed books that I could leave lying around for you, or anything, I just want to pay Axis residents in books so that I can send the thing I wanna send. I was asked not to disclose the details of the request but my understanding is that it is not against your interests."

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"But you were not, in fact, just intending to offer books as payment if residents of Axis happened to want books as payment, you were trying to get yourself a books permission so you could send books to some undisclosed party?"

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"I guess that would more convenient than making the books out of rice paper and squid ink such that I might in fact have done it, but it's not different in a way that I understood to be important. Is it?"

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"Yes!!!! If every time I give you any permission I am also expanding forever the range of things you will do without telling me so long as you can think of a much less convenient and lower-quality way you could have accomplished something similar then that's a much much bigger deal than if that were not the case!"

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"Oh. Okay. I would like permission to pay Axis residents in books to deliver a parcel made of rice paper and squid ink. You can time-limit it if that will help."

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"Absolutely not. If you try to negotiate with anybody I'll put up a Silence."

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"Wow, just because I didn't know you'd care if I used real paper instead of rice paper?"

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"Because you said 'no fuckery' while doing something that any person whose reasoning I could model would consider to be fuckery, and that means we're back to 'I have to treat you like I'm negotiating with Asmodeus'."

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"I assume you realize I can negotiate in writing Silence or no Silence."

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"The sounds that you make with your mouth have no meaning to me and I see no reason to share my anticipations about what you can and can't do."

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"...also I'm nonzero concerned that if you do attempt to prevent me from making a consensual transaction in Aktun you will be kicked out and promptly kidnapped by your countrymen."

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"I will tell them that I was indeed an idiot for thinking that decent people could work toward shared goals with Chaotic outsiders without those Chaotic outsiders dishonestly using them, and deserve to burn eternally for it."

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"Do you want to go find someone to do another truth spell so I can repeat that I did not think whether the correspondence was on real paper or not was important?"

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"That would just persuade me you're immune to truth spells or that you are so fundamentally psychologically alien and incapable of modelling my perspective that there is no point having interactions that aren't through lawyers and in triplicate."

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"...do you want to go hire lawyers."

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"Obviously! I am planning to hire lawyers, get a different building in Aktun, and never speak to you again, though my lawyers may occasionally convey requests from yours and if I think what you're doing will endanger my homeland I will kill myself!"

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"...gotcha. Wow. I guess I will go find some lawyers who like chocolate or something. Good luck with yours." He's going to just preemptively write up an ad for a lawyer and one for a courier on his computer so he never has to invite the question of whether he's permitted to speak to them aloud and then go around holding up his computer at any interested-looking passersby.

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"I would like two thousand Wish-grade diamonds in a single iron box all in unoccupied air on the floor in this room. I intend to exchange them in Aktun for high quality legal counsel and a well-funded events-market on whether the government of Cheliax will be overthrown in the next ten years if I die immediately and if I live ten more years."

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"I have actually no idea what the special incantations are that make it so I can know that what you say reliable and complete as opposed to unreliable and incomplete, even if there definitely have to be some because a magic spell says you're Lawful, which I'm not even confident is a valid inference. Also even if I wanted to give them to you saying you'd like something doesn't constitute permission."

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"You have permission to make me a single iron box with two thousand Wish diamonds in it on the floor of this room where I can see it in unoccupied space."

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Cam thinks about it for a minute, and then says, "Maybe later." And he goes on waving his advertisements around.

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"Sixty seconds, or I kill myself. Or you render me unconscious, get kicked out of Aktun for it, the Church of Abadar passes the Church of Asmodeus my revocation of my participation in Worldwound related efforts if I'm unconscious, and they kill me. I am sincerely grateful, Cam, for the lesson in why Chaotic Good is not possible to work with towards shared interests."

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"- yeah no. I think it's better if I go home than if you have two thousand Wish diamonds with which to do whatever the fuck you want when you're not even giving me time to let a lawyer check your assurances about what they're for, that screams fuckery. It's been real. EXCUSE ME IF ANYONE CAN EMERGENCY DO SOME COURIERING I CAN PROBABLY PAY YOU ABOVE MARKET BUT IT'S COMPLICATED."

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"I have never used your resources against your interests. This entire time I have only used your powers to do exactly what I said I'd do. You are the one who has been gleefully betraying me left right and center while I just tried, like a complete idiot, to only do things in the intersection of our interests. If you want a Truth Spell about the diamonds, I'll give you a couple minutes to hire one even though I bet you're using it to betray me some more."

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"OR A TRUTH SPELL WOULD ALSO BE COOL," he obligingly hollers.

KOFUSACHI I AM KIND OF WEDGED????

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Aktun has excellent between-building soundproofing. 

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"I swear to you, for whatever that's worth, that I really only want the diamonds to hire lawyers and learn whether my being alive is going to cause the destruction of everything that matters to me. I am fine with putting them into some kind of Aktun trust account that can only be used for that. 

 

...I'm not fine with waiting, because I can't confidently expect my interests aren't losing out while I wait."

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"I have no idea what the lawyer market here looks like. I note you didn't offer to let me have any of the diamonds for my own lawyers, or even offer to hire one for me if you didn't want me handling the diamonds, and I have no reason to believe that there aren't Hell-sympathetic law firms in Axis who might, given such a windfall, spend them having been paid them in some unfortunate way. I am not fine with having minutes in which to decide all on my own whether to give you two thousand wish diamonds because a divination I learned existed yesterday says you historically haven't been the kind to break your word unless I am misunderstanding that which I probably am. I'm only here to help people. If I'm going to make it worse, because you're not going to let me think, or get outside opinions, or in general act like not your accessory, then I might as well be home. If I can't improve on the status quo I will go home and play the violin. All this betrayal you have been talking about is correspondence. I want to correspond with people who can help me figure out if I can do that, and if I can't, if I might be accidentally blundering my way into giving two thousand Wish diamonds to the Devils And Diabolists Law Firm Partnership which gets tax kickbacks for buying Maledictions or some shit - I could be home not hurting anybody."

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"I let you talk to people! I'd have let you talk to more people! The problem is that you said no fuckery."

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"Whatever. Go home. Play the violin. I hate you and I hope Asmodeus lets me keep hating you forever."

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There is a knock at the door.

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Cam opens it. "Hi talk fast."

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The woman at the door could be Carissa's ethnicity, maybe. 

 

"Abadar and I have now put up a Time Stop," she says, not in fact speaking particularly fast. "No plans are unfolding, no one is benefitting, no one is losing, no one is committing suicide. - if you still want to at the end of this interaction I will not at that point stop you."

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"And who are you."

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Oh good? Probably Kofusachi poked Abadar and whoever this is? If she's saying 'Abadar and I' probably a god or demigod of some sort.

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"With your permission," she says to Cam about the door. If she can come in, then she will do that. 

 

 

And when the door has closed, and some greater brighter magic than the protections they already paid for has flared around it -

"I am Iomedae, Lawful Good ascended goddess of war and triage, though this was paid for by a number of interested parties. This is - really not the sort of thing that happens very often."

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Carissa wants to angrily glare but she's way too intimidated for that and also in fact being distracted by the fact the woman does, actually, look like a Chelish person (and was, once, a Chelish person), though of course now she is a god and Carissa isn't sure gods care if once they were Chelish people.

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(Some gods do but She is not, actually, one of the gods that do.)

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Cam lets her in. He collapses on a certified fuckery-free sofa he made a while ago and drops his face into his hands. "Nice to meet you, thanks for coming," he mumbles. "I'm Cam."

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She nods to him, and sits, Herself, or at least the body that She's apparently inhabiting apparently positions itself in a sitting sort of way. The chair does not in fact depress beneath the illusion, and there's a general careful unreality to it, like She's not just not quite here but carefully not even pretending perfectly to be here. 

 

"If someone like Cam came to this world," she says to Carissa, "and trusted the - promises, the apparent generosity, the good intentions - of the Chelish soldier who summoned him, how often do you expect that would work out for him?"

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"Well, that depends on what he wants."

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"It barely does. For nearly any conceivable set of wants possessed by anyone other than Asmodeus, it would plainly usually go very badly. If it would have worked, in this case, for Cam to trust you, that is because you are, in fact, a Lawful Good person in denial who carefully avoided ever thinking for six seconds about what you'd do if you had power, and then successfully thought about it in a very small window of opportunity when you had one. I am very glad that occurred! But I cannot fault the judgment-patterns that would have been correct if it hadn't."

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Okay after the Church of Iomedae pointedly did not make any efforts to convert her Carissa was in fact not expecting the goddess herself to claim in their literal first interaction that Carissa is actually a Lawful Good person in denial about this fact. She - doesn't have a retort. She's pretty sure she still reads Evil and pretty sure that isn't a retort and she doesn't want Hell destroyed and 

 

- and, okay, it's pretty easy to see why someone would claim that that's a Lawful Good kind of reason to oppose the forces of Lawful Good. 

It is still a reason to oppose the forces of Lawful Good.

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"I'm sorry about the book thing, I sincerely did not get that it mattered to you," Cam mumbles into his hands.

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"I don't understand in what sense that can possibly be true," she grumbles back.

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"I am not reading his mind, because he wouldn't want me to, but I would not expect you to be surprised that people in a sufficiently hostile and precarious environment might, while not thinking too hard about specific opportunities for safety, generically try to accumulate latitude they only subconsciously understand their reasons for wanting."

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- are you reading my mind? she thinks, stupidly.

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Yes. I am, whether or not it was obtained specifically by reading your mind, not going to use the things I learned here against your interests, though we do, as you noticed, have some potentially competing interests. 

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She's confused.

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Cam happens to value not being mindread not only because his mind contains things he doesn't want used against him.

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"Thank you for not reading my mind." If she isn't. She's Lawful but like, Kofusachi's not and he bowed out of the initial prayer early because of not wanting to be a dick about it? And Iomedae is also Good? What does any of this even mean and would he have figured it out well enough to be getting on with if he had spent less time on reading the proposal to foment robot uprising? He has no idea.

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Iomedae cannot answer any of those questions for him because She is not reading his mind. 

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"Can you help us set up an escrow account we can only draw on for legal fees and event-markets so we can continue working together on the Worldwound and so on?"

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"Yes. If we cannot come up with something better than a legal fund which you both access to have vetted Axis lawyers write proposals for mutually agreed upon interventions, then I will propose to Cam some conjurations that will confirm to his satisfaction that such vetted lawyers can be found, and someone will make arrangements with them, and we'll do that. But since I'm here, I'm in fact going to see if there are further useful interventions so we can stop leaving the overwhelming majority of the potential value of this situation untapped.

It is my specific intent to attempt to persuade you, Carissa, that you should consider overthrowing the Thrune rule of Cheliax, and that many of the people who desire that desire it out of a love of your country, a deep appreciation for the rich and Lawful and powerful and free nation that it was before the Thrunes and can be after them and will never be under them."

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"Cheliax is a Lawful nation."

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"Every scrap of your righteous anger at Cam about your failed negotiations here is about conduct in which Asmodeans are encouraged to engage, unless they are Worldwound soldiers taught to be more lawful than that so as to not be too inconvenient to their commanders or too likely to outright break an actual Lawful treaty to which Cheliax knows it is in fact subject. You are right, in a sense, to feel that Asmodeanism is not Law in the form of it that is meaningful, that Law the beautiful and human thing is something Asmodeus reviles and undermines at every turn."

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Oh, she thinks immediately, and is it Lawful Good, to go around picking at peoples' heresies like that, until they can't be good Asmodeans anymore and have no choice but to turn to you?

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What processes Lawful Good gods use to select words to speak with mortals is, in fact, a complicated question, for some of the reasons you've thought of and some you haven't; I am employing processes I think you'd approve if you understood them, but without prophecy that's imperfect, and with people whose process of coming to comprehend Law at all would involve significant shifts in their values - such as you - it presents additional challenges.

The intuition you keep reaching for - that I am not a person, that I do not choose my words for the reasons everyone you have ever spoken to has chosen theirs - is of course true, and important, which isn't to say that any of the corrections you are trying to apply are in the correct direction. 

Axis exists, and even if you decide you want Heaven there are powers in it besides me, and the option of becoming your own power in Heaven if you think no existing ones get it sufficiently right.

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Is she being offered backing in becoming a power in Heaven or is it just being tantalizingly waved in front of her nose. Just to clarify.

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Iomedae's been spending a lot of cognition on tracking the psychology of this specific mortal lately and She is in fact still surprised that they're at 'am I being offered backing in becoming a power in Heaven' this fast.

It's that, more than anything, that decides her. 

I will back you in becoming a power in Heaven, if you sort yourself out enough that you'll be competent at the job, which I expect you will.

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"I in fact want that lawyer."

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"Talking through intermediaries seems wise and them being lawyers has advantages," Cam murmurs.

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"I expect many lawyers will be hired once this Time Stop ends. I want to before that settle non-legal matters; legal ones my Church is competent to negotiate, for the most part." And to Carissa, "if Heaven possesses the means - through Cam or through some other change in the balance of powers - to invade Hell, we would do if we could achieve any of ongoing control of Avernus, denying ongoing control of Avernus to Asmodeus, denying transit through Avernus to the rest of Creation to Asmodeus, or rescuing a sufficient number of people. We would first, of course, tell Asmodeus we were going to do this, and among truly Lawful gods the war would thereby be avoided, as we'd both share our best estimates of how it would go and then agree to skip to the end state. Asmodeus is not, in the framework you instinctively use, such a Lawful god, and would refuse to be legible about whether His estimates were in fact His best, and might spitefully have a war not in His interests. That means that I do pose a threat to everything you care about.

This is a situation that probably will arise eventually, not necessarily with Heaven as a party, because there are a great many entities that object to Asmodeus's rule in Hell and because Asmodeus is not all that interested in avoiding it, if doing so would cost Him his pride or oblige Him to negotiate transparently. Axis is much safer against something like this happening, because Abadar doesn't go around making enemies and if someone had a credible interest in invading Axis He will negotiate reasonably with them for something better so long as something better exists.

Heaven isn't much safer against something like this happening, frankly, but we keep our civilians and our cities on our fourth tier, not the second, because we don't want them to be collateral damage in an assault on Heaven as a military power, and we don't want anyone incentivized to go after them. To the extent there are things precious to you in Dis - and I think there are fewer of them in the real Dis than in the place by that name in your imagination - to the extent that there are, Asmodeus put them there so that some parties that'd otherwise war with Him wouldn't care to, and He doesn't mind if everyone in Dis as a result dies when some party that does want to war with Him does it."

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In principle it is not, actually, any information, that the thing a goddess of Lawful Good says to you when She has reason to persuade you particularly is persuasive-sounding.

 

"Even if all of that is true it's not anyone in Dis's fault that Asmodeus is terrible and you don't - have any right - to kill them to stop him."

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"He has, in the case of His devils, stripped them of the capacity to care for their own continuation, because then they'd have motive to oppose Him, and He finds those funny in the powerless but not in those forces that, could they coordinate on opposition to Him, could destroy Him. In the case of the petitioners He has simply hurt them so much that most of them would prefer their destruction to their continuation."

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"Now you're lying."

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"This is not actually a common point of skepticism about the case against Hell. Most people who have known a great deal of pain know a pain that would not, to them, be worth continuing to endure if the chances it might improve were too slim or too distant.

 

Most people who can choose Abaddon or the Abyss do."

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That she hadn't actually known, and it seems - concrete, more the kind of thing that probably isn't a lie - she could ask Cam to check afterwards -

 

 

"They're just - wrong - thinking too much about the short term and not about the end state, which matters far more -"

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"The end state is the same thing, for most of them. Most petitioners don't become devils."

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Also checkable.

 

 

 

"Why'd you tell your church not to convert me? So you could do it yourself?"

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"I had no plans to do this. This is extraordinarily costly. I told my church not to convert you because we had not ruled out allying with Cam to strike at Hell and it would be an injustice to you to use you against your own convictions like that; more decent to treat you as an adversary."

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"Is that what you're going to do?"

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"I don't know. As long as Hell endures in its present form, I will be unwilling to promise you I won't. But we are currently engaged in trying to, with Cam-aided espionage, find something better. That is the request that caused your...recent dispute."

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Carissa is not going to whine about Cam to the goddess of Lawful Good who just admitted to her face she might ally with Cam to assault Hell.

 

But she feels strongly that the dispute was not caused by Heaven's book request but by Cam saying 'no fuckery' about his shenanigans to fulfill it.

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Cam has basically no reason to believe that speaking without being spoken to will at this point help anything. He has his computer out and he's taking notes on what parts of the conversation he can hear. Not for the peanut gallery, just for himself. He was spending cycles on having a personality and taking shortcuts trying not to be inconvenienced and clearly he should have done something different and he is going to try and figure out what. Apparently she's very sensitive about - not being adequately legalistic in the implementations of things, he was trying to save bother on the assumption that their time was valuable and she was trying to save worry on the assumption that it might matter a lot if he could make for-example-books? Is she not aware that he can already make paper and ink, he never actually ran into the limit of the paper and ink permission he was working with - is it going to make her nervous if he makes food, going forward, he probably needs the coffee but he doesn't have to snack, if he needs coffee is it better to make and drink it in front of her or where she won't notice, that could go either way -

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"People who are from entirely different planets usually have communication difficulties of this magnitude," she says, mostly to Carissa, mostly gently. 

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"I would be grateful if you tried to explain because I don't know how."

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"If you are a god," she says to Cam, "you find yourself frequently in situations where verbal or even written agreements of the kind that it is possible for mortals to make with you don't, actually, describe the space in which you can take actions very well, or meaningfully limit what you can do. Different gods handle this differently, but the Lawful Good way is to - try extremely hard at separating out adversarial interactions, in which you accumulate advantage at the other party's expense, and optimize over their information state in ways other than trying to convey the truth, and harm them to advance your interests -

- and collaborative interactions, in which you categorically don't do those things and if you accidentally accumulate some advantages refuse to use those in future adversarial interactions and if you harm them accidentally pay them back for it.

And then you be very clear about which are which.

I think this has some resemblance to the thing you and Carissa were trying to do, but - neither of you had a good formal description of collaborative-interaction rules, and particularly of the most important part of them which is what you do if you accidentally gain an advantage during a collaborative interaction."

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"Usually on summons," he says, "I can't talk - or, well, I can say 'yes summoner' and 'no summoner' but nothing else, not even particularly semantic gestures. If something seems like a bad idea I just don't do it and have to let them take it from there. On occasion I've done something specifically because I was summoned unsafely and if I didn't do it the next person they tried might have taken advantage. But usually I have no possibility of getting unfiltered information about the situation except insofar as I have more context about the state of the world I'm in, which turns out to matter a lot. I used to teach summoning from the other end, but that was mostly about designing written bindings with lots of time and not accidentally uttering affirmatives. I'm trying to figure out - where I lost hold of the situation so badly? I'm not sure it was about the books, although I guess it's possible that the books thing was such a grievous procedural violation that it wasn't recoverable without divine intervention from there no matter what, I think it must have been - earlier - but if I'd asked her I really don't think letting me talk to people would have come in the form of letting me send letters to Sothis and Lastwall on Kofusachi's advice, I think I freak her out enough that I would have gotten exclusively filtered information except insofar as I communicated with people without her knowledge. I guess maybe I could have told her early on I was writing to the other apsels back home but if she'd wrecked my computer and didn't let me replace it I'd get markedly less useful at a lot of things..."

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"I think it was correct and appropriate to engage with Carissa on adversarial terms and the only mistake was letting her believe you weren't doing that. In your place I would have said to her very early on that I intended to try to accumulate independent allies and information sources and that I was not advising her with the aim that she successfully control me.

I don't think that this should have been obvious, I think a great deal of why it would have helped has to do with cultural context you didn't start out possessing, but the - general principle which might be applicable in other places you might eventually find yourself, would look something like.... the decision to let someone believe that a relationship is not adversarial, because one hopes it might not be in the future, because there's a lot of latitude one can win from the other party's hopes that the interaction isn't adversarial, is ultimately itself the kind of adversarial action that mostly forecloses future cooperation."

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"I mean, if I'd told her I wasn't advising her with the aim that she successfully control me it seemed likely that I'd wind up mind controlled."

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"By her? Or do you mean that you would not successfully have departed Cheliax?"

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"Either, both, I had a lot of uncertainty. I needed to keep her alive and retain the ability to think and gather information."

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"And it felt like those were all such high priorities that it didn't make sense to do something like committing to Carissa that you wouldn't use resources accumulated in the course of getting her out safely against her, or alerting her that you did intend to so use them, because both of those would be handicaps in a situation that already felt like you were underresourced to face it?"

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"- it might have made sense if we'd had more time before we had to flee the country? But I apparently read Chaotic so I'm not sure she would have believed me, I keep getting the impression that she thinks I should be unshakably convinced that she is fundamentally Lawful and will never jeopardize that status no matter what and doesn't trust anything short of that as a way to - bound expectations of someone's behavior? Also 'against her' happened to be not just, would I harm her specifically, but also, would I address the single most obvious geopolitical problem on the planet."

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"I didn't assume you couldn't be trusted until you made it clear you'd contacted Razmir behind my back!!"

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"I didn't! He intercepted a letter for someone else!"

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"Contacted parties behind my back in a way that caused us to come to Razmir's attention!"

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"There is never any point in being indignant if someone has a bad understanding of you; you can either invest in their having a better one, or pay the costs of their having a bad one. Cam not thinking it was possible to be trustworthy to you is just as much of a problem for you if he thinks that wrongly as if he thinks it rightly, and declaring he thought it wrongly isn't solving it."

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"I figured we couldn't start out trusting each other but we could build towards it over time if we just kept extending little bits of trust and not betraying it because it wasn't worth betraying in any individual case, until we had something valuable enough it wasn't worth betraying even for higher stakes. Except it turns out that every time I had extended a little bit of trust, I was giving him more power he could and would use to knock me unconscious and invade Cheliax."

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"I was trying to develop - rapport? A - shared sense of what was possible? - but it kept looking like we were inevitably going to have some kind of insurmountable values difference, that absolutely everyone I could conceivably want to help with anything was going to clash with Cheliax or Hell or both."

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"I think that was a very understandable tradeoff to make, and also the inevitable result of Carissa catching on to it was her deciding to commit suicide."

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"Mm, that was one reason I was holding on to the way I had to knock her out, but then we wound up in Aktun which seemed like a good idea at the time..." He trails off.

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"You had few appealing options once you were in a situation where Carissa to whatever degree she became more correct about the situation would want to kill herself. The strategy I proposed, of disclosing adversarial intent or not engaging adversarially at all, would've had some significant downsides, but one of the advantages that to my mind frequently outweighs those is that it wouldn't have put you in a situation where learning a more accurate picture of the situation would make your summoner attempt to kill herself and where being in a place with adequate law enforcement was incompatible with your contingency plans."

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"- that's not actually obvious to me at all? I mean, I don't know how it would have gone, but if she operated under some misapprehension about how successful I was at my adversarialness or something learning more could make her decide actually she wasn't cut out for it and commit suicide even if she knew I would be adversarial to begin with. And if I wasn't doing anything behind her back at all I would have had - so little information about anything, we'd have had to operate much more conservatively, I think she'd have been kidnapped and then it wouldn't have mattered what she thought of my cooperativeness."

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"I'd have approved you asking your friends in your world for help, if you'd asked me about doing that! I would've agreed to contacting more churches, I did agree to you talking with various entities like Lastwall and the Abadarans and Razmir and so on, I'd have kept agreeing to that! And I really really don't want to die, I would never have done that if there was the possibility I could just move out and contact you through lawyers!"

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"Well, I didn't know that, and every time you learned I'd been talking to someone things immediately got worse so I formed the belief that you were somewhat sour on the idea."

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"Are you really unable to understand the difference between 'oh, yeah, I used the permission you gave me to make myself something to eat to drop letters the contents of which are secret from you on Lastwall' and 'hey, Carissa, I propose we contact Lastwall'?"

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"It is certainly becoming crystal clear to me that the exact order of operations according to which I contact Lastwall is not a trivial detail to you."

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"To the extent that that isn't being willfully obnoxious on purpose I have absolutely no idea what it is."

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"It seems to me that the situation here is that the two of you are enemies with quite a few common goals, should not be in the same room as one another, and should probably just, in the future, communicate through legal counsel. There are things that are better than that, but they are not really attainable unless everyone involved wants them more than they want to have been in the right all along."

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"I'd be happy to have been wrong if I knew where, but I'm not feeling enlightened so far. I can wait upstairs till you need me to pay lawyers." Cam gets up.

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"I have pointed out half a dozen things you were wrong about in the last thirty seconds alone."

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Is there... anything helpful he can say to that... no, there are satisfying-seeming things but not really helpful ones. She listed things out that he didn't know, didn't guess, nothing that would have let him figure it out when he needed to. And it won't help to litigate that. He pauses on the stairs but then keeps going.

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"It makes sense to me," Iomedae says calmly, "for you to want event-markets on the destruction of things valuable to you within Hell, and if you don't end up persuaded that it would be a legitimate objective then I will enable you in setting those up. Though I will also point out that such event-markets would permit me to go through with plans to attack Hell were I sufficiently confident Asmodeus will negotiate. I think you're fine with that, but I wanted to make it clear as a consequence, so that if that did happen you wouldn't be unpleasantly surprised that your precautions hadn't protected against it."

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"You are welcome to have negotiations with Asmodeus that Axis thinks are very unlikely to result in war."

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"I do want you to persuade you to not have such a market operative - or to not plan your suicide around it - for the Thrune monarchy on Golarion. For one thing it's a ...very small thing, on the scale that you ought to at this point be thinking on. People don't like hearing that about their home countries, but if you want to be doing important things this is an important part of growing up to do that. The expected reign of Abrogail II is not all that long; her predecessors didn't reign very long. It is going to be hard for you to do anything important or interesting on Golarion, including straightfowardly important things like closing the Worldwound, without affecting the expected duration of her reign. The Worldwound closing will be geopolitically destabilizing. It'll free up Cheliax's forces, but also free up those who oppose Cheliax and have been refraining from invading it in the expectation Cheliax would leave the Worldwound to hang, under those circumstances. I do not specifically know what that market will settle to, it wouldn't be a good use of my time to calculate, but I think it's fairly likely that even if you took only actions you presently want to take, they'd see Abrogail II's reign end early. Not necessarily in a massive and destructive war; she may lose power about as bloodlessly as she came to it.

But it's not worth your life to protect her."

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"I just don't want - my country run by people who hate us and -"

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" - see us the way Cam does -"

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"Cam is an extremely confused alien from very far away. Did Lastwall possess the resources to conquer Cheliax it would be run by Chelish defectors and expatriates and the Church of a Chelish god, though as you have correctly noticed that doesn't have all of the meaning that some people would automatically ascribe to it, because I don't care about people in my homeland more than people in other places."

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"They still think we're brainwashed and - pitiable and -"

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"Pity is an emotion but 'brainwashed' is mostly a claim about reality, do you think it's incorrect? If it's true, I should hope they think it; they are charged with believing true things."

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"Everyone everywhere is bent into whatever shape the nearest gods see fit. You're going to claim the ways you bend them aren't the same as the ways Asmodeus does it but I don't really see the difference."

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"Most Chelish wizards defect once they can Teleport, if they haven't sold their souls."

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"So your claim is that you're ....better at mortal-twisting than Asmodeus is?"

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"Oh, I am unambiguously wildly better at it, per unit of effort. I would argue that this is because 'everyone should live forever in paradise and learn and grow and shape the world by their principles' is an inherently more appealing proposition to mortals than 'everyone should be ground down into Asmodeus's slaves, because this serves Asmodeus, and it doesn't serve them but they'll be punished for thinking too hard about that', but even if you disagree with my diagnosis of why I'm better at it I'm clearly much better at it."

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"Asmodeus's claim is that He'll make you stronger than Heaven would dare to."

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"There are many, many soldiers in Heaven, Carissa, who would suffer anything if it would make them stronger.

It mostly doesn't.

 

Getting stronger mostly requires thinking clearly and accumulating resources and training and executing operations. High stakes, but not specifically torment.

 

Also I'm not even sure Asmodeus claims that, though He claims many things to many different people. I think you may have made that up to have an account of yourself you could live by."

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"Lawful Evil is disadvantaged by other powerful Lawful Evil entities, because such entities are selfish, and not nearly as pleased with worlds ruled by the other; Lawful Good isn't disadvantaged by other powerful Lawful Good entities.

 

 

 

Heaven wants you to be someone who can overthrow Asmodeus. Asmodeus does not want that."

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"Fine," says Carissa with tremendous irritation. "Fine. I'm going to do some vetting, but if you're not lying about any of that, you win, I'm Lawful Good, Asmodeus sucks, I hope you can cut a deal with Him, I don't think Him sucking entitles you to murder His victims. Happy?"

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"I am not the kind of being that has experiential correlates of achieving my objectives, and in any event did not set myself the objective of converting you, though it did seem like a plausible consequence of even slightly unconfusing you.

- but in a sense, yes."

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"What do I say to Cam."

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"It seems strategically acceptable if the two of you communicate only through attorneys! If you insist on trying to talk with him more, I would repeat a lot of variants of 'it makes sense that from the information you had access to, it wasn't obvious you could have treated me any better and still achieved your objectives'."

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"You would've -"

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"As a human I would've gambled differently because I was a human who had invested heavily in skill with Lawful cooperative strategies. As a god I would much less have been importantly gambling. If you go around comparing everyone you have to work with to Me you're going to be very bitter and very useless."

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There is a part of Carissa that wants to kill herself just to spite Cam for having decided to pursue a strategy that only worked so long as she didn't know enough to kill herself. It is, to be clear, not going to win out, but -

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"A lot of human impulses towards Law take that form and are triggered regardless of whether it's a situation where the decision procedure they constitute is actually a winning one. Which isn't to say that being willing to kill yourself and go to Hell out of spite is never a winning decision procedure, but - I think certainly nearly everyone who has actually done it was making the wrong decision.

 

 

Nearly all instances of cooperating with aliens feel like magnanimously forgiving them outrageous behavior while they throw an incomprehensible tantrum over a completely trivial misunderstanding. If you want things that can only be had by cooperating with aliens you are probably going to want to internally label it the 'cooperating with aliens feeling' rather than the 'being outrageously wronged by barbarians' feeling."

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"He was furious with me for not letting him make bags for the famine relief in Bachuan."

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"And do you prefer to feel outrage about the barbarians, or curious about what process produced that, which you evidently failed to predict?"

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....outrage about the barbarians. She knows it's pathetic. Iomedae, presumably, chose a question to which Carissa's answer would be pathetic, on purpose.

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"It is sometimes a useful rule that you only actually start winning once you care about winning more than you care about anything else. It's good to know, about yourself, if there are things you care about more than winning, because then you know not to make plans that involve winning."

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"Is that the official Lawful Good terminology for 'you're being pathetic'."

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"Indeed."

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"Fine. I'm curious. Why'd he care so much about the bags."

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"I don't know, because I have been respecting his wishes and not reading his mind. Often when people care about something wildly more than it appears to matter it is because it dramatically changes their predictions about future interactions, or because it suggests they were wrong in an assumption they'd been making that was important to them, or because it is indicative of how much they are trusted or respected or liked or prioritized, or because it actually matters to them a lot more than you realize it does because you care about different things from them. Traditionally in such a situation, as soon as you notice you're confused by the strength of their reaction, you say 'I'm sorry, can we back up for a second, I didn't intend to offer an insult and didn't expect you to react so strongly, I'm missing something'."

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Carissa was glad Cam was mad about it because she was mad at him and wanted him to realize that there were indeed downsides to his decision to have forced her to think really hard about every permission she granted him; most of the costs of that were of course going to fall on her but she wasn't sad if a few of them fell on him. 

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"Seems like caring about something other than winning," says Iomedae, dryly.

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"Maybe no one ever told you but mortals are pathetic all the time. This is why Asmodeus lights them on fire."

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"Or it was convenient for Asmodeus, for you to attribute your weakness to something you couldn't change, like your mortality, and not something you could, like your character."

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The part of Carissa that is reminding herself that this is a conversation with a god and will mold her however the god pleases pops up to point out that Iomedae's paladins are not as cool as Iomedae seems to want to suggest that humans can become. 

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"I very rarely have the luxury of an hour's conversation with them. Though also - around Asmodeans they are learnedly wary. You would find greater strength if you were someone it was safe to show it."

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Carissa is about to open her mouth and protest that everyone treats her like because she's an Asmodean she's a monster when all she has ever done is be a hardworking soldier at the fucking Worldwound when it catches up with her that, actually, if people going to Hell is really bad for them, then she has ....

 

 

....done a lot of awful things, actually. 

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Because it's not a favor to heretics, to report them before they get even worse and there's even less of them Asmodeus can use. 

 

 

And because if pain doesn't make people stronger, it's not a favor to them, to hurt them until they stop being like that.

 

 

 

 

And because none of that was, actually, hard to see, unless you were lying to yourself about it on purpose and also someone who'd report anyone who pointed it out to you.

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You said I was Lawful Good and in denial, she manages to think, halfway indignantly, once the horror and revulsion and guilt suddenly swirling around inside her at a hundred times the intensity of anything she's ever felt starts to recede enough that her thoughts are in words at all. You - why would you say that - why would you let me get away with not realizing -

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"Because you were going to realize soon enough," she says quietly, "and it ought to have been your realization, not my judgment."

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"I want to - get them all back -"

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"Oh, only the ones you sent there personally? It's all right for everybody else?"

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- and that feels like being kicked when she's down, enough of a shock to actually throw her mind into brief clarity -

"if you - have a rescue mission planned of course I'm fine with that, it's - I just don't want you to murder them -"

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"The available operation that maximizes number of people rescued from Hell is sending Cam to obliterate Dis, Carissa. If that were not so I would not be contemplating it."

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This is what it feels like to have a god want you convinced of something.

 

It'd feel this blazingly certain and clear if Asmodeus were doing it, too. 

 


"You're just going to have to do better than that," she says, stubbornly. 

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"Help us do better than that. Let us communicate and plan with all of the people on Cam's world, unrestricted, so if anyone has a plan to do better than that we can see it. Give us Hell's secrets, so if there's a way to overthrow it by its own rules we find that. Let Cam make of Golarion a world as rich and free as the one he's from, one whose people aren't desperate and will demand better. Give us the diamonds to rip out of Hell everyone it's not too late to get back."

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"How long does the Time Stop last."

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"As long as you need."

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"Really? I should make myself a greater headband."

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"Not necessarily as long as you want."

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"I want an hour. To -" concede everything to you with some dignity " - to -

- I could skip the hour if you were to swear to me that you have been working in this interaction only towards my interests."

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"As you know, I have not been, and a god's work, at this expense, only towards your interests, is something you will only have if you become a god."

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"Uh huh. But I want someone in the room to be checking on Carissa's interests, so I want an hour."

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"I understand." And she goes still, in the chair, supernaturally so.

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- and now she can collapse to the floor and sob until she vomits.

 

That wasn't her plan? Her plan had been to write out the actual arguments and which pieces she needed to verify and which promises she wanted? However, mortals are pathetic Carissa is unskilled and so here she is sobbing until she vomits instead.

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Does she believe any of that?

 

 

...yeah. She actually suspects that a Lawful Good goddess can't lie to her, not in the straightforward way of saying false things. She bets all the things she asks Cam to check will show up the way Iomedae implied. And some of what she said was just actually obvious, once you think of it, like that Lawful Evil doesn't want rivals and Lawful Good benefits from other Lawful Good powers because selfish entities are less benefitted by someone else with identical priorities than selfless ones.

 

The phrasing, of course, was very carefully chosen. Iomedae is probably not actually the god who just happens to sing to every impulse inside Carissa's heart, but a god, who can therefore see and choose to pluck on every impulse inside Carissa's heart. And probably, if careful words had been sufficient to get Carissa to agree to attacking Dis, Iomedae would have called Cam down to gracefully accept Carissa's permission, and then gone to work on convincing Cam. Or maybe she's doing that simultaneously. Probably that. 

Carissa wants to be that cool when she grows up. 

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That is, of course, among the bribes Iomedae offered. 

I will back you in becoming a power in Heaven, if you sort yourself out enough that you'll be competent at the job, which I expect you will.

It can't possibly be an offer that gets made to just anybody. So it's a bribe because Carissa is in a position to be sufficiently valuable to Heaven, except it wasn't actually conditional on helping with the Cam situation, just on - sorting herself out. Which she supposes would predictably if you're a god entail realizing that Hell is terrible and that she wants to give Cam broad permissions to work with Iomedae on tearing out of Hell every person she or anyone else sent there within the range diamonds can help with.

But Heaven didn't have to offer her this, in exchange for that. They would've seen they could have that either way. 

 

Well, that's confusing and she can ask Iomedae some more questions about it.

 

What else is confusing?

 

What Iomedae was aiming for, once She'd communicated that lawyers could be arranged and prevented Carissa from killing herself, which would be a loss by Iomedae's interests. No, She said that She wanted to convince Carissa to not set up suicide-markets about the continuity of Chelish rule. Which is reasonable, Carissa looking back on it in fact thinks it'd be insane to kill herself to protect the Chelish monarchy. The Chelish monarchy absolutely wouldn't do it for her. And - rule by Iomedae or Her Church is not, in fact, rule by an uncomprehending alien who feels only contempt for the actual priorities of the actual people of Cheliax. Iomedae is quite obviously banned in Cheliax because otherwise almost everyone would worship Her. A local goddess of - strength, and will to succeed, and other things Asmodeus prizes, a god who would hurt you to make you stronger but who believes hurting you doesn't usually do that.

Though it's not as if She was being gentle, with Carissa.

 

...Iomedae was in hindsight probably also aiming for 'Carissa is unwilling to kill herself over a swing in the markets on the destruction of Dis'. That...feels like a direction in which Carissa has maybe unendorsedly been moved? And she's mad about it, if that is what Iomedae was aiming for. It's one thing to try to convince Carissa to invade Dis, that's only fair, but trying to convince her to feel conflicted enough about it she won't kill herself feels underhanded. 

She can ask about that too.

 

 

She is still confused about Cam. Iomedae...didn't seem confused about Cam, and seemed to think the problems were mostly Carissa's fault, but - actually, did She think that? She seemed to mostly have advice for Carissa. But that could've been because Carissa is the one who wasn't getting what she wanted, more than because the situation was mostly Carissa's fault. Or because Carissa was the one She could mindread so the one whose errors She could see. Carissa finds that she cares quite a lot whether Iomedae thinks the situation was mostly her fault or not, even though she can also see that caring a lot about that is the - gesture Iomedae warned her against, it's the kind of caring-about-something that doesn't have a win condition and gets in the way of winning.

 

Well. When you have a god answering your questions, you may as well ask all of them.

 

She has a headache from all of the crying. She - weighs the upsides and downsides and decides she'd rather have a headache than ask Cam for a glass of water.

 

 

 

She stares at Iomedae's face. She's aware this is kind of a weird thing to do. It's not just that it's a Chelish face; it's one that looks strikingly like Carissa's. No one would be surprised to learn that they were sisters. 

Was that intentional? Probably. 

 


When the face moves Carissa startles.

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"It has been an hour."

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"Right. Thank you. I wanted to know what percentage of people in Heaven become what I'd probably call a Power in Heaven."

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"Perhaps one in ten thousand, at some point, though it is true of a much smaller share at any time. It is more common in Heaven than in Hell for a Power to retire, and pass along their strength to another."

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"Do you sponsor anyone who wants it?"

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"No. That would not be a good use of resources."

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"Then why the offer."

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"You are, in fact, a deeply unusual person with an intensely felt area of concern not presently strongly represented in Heaven except by entities like me that work from a reference copy of all human values, construed as best we can into complex cases no one can ask humans about."

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"What, not murdering people?"

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"Yes. I am imagining you would also kick up a fuss across Creation about familiars dying when their spellcasters do and not getting an afterlife, and about that spell that makes a magic item intelligent but only for ten minutes, and about similar phenomena. Worlds where for whatever reason no one gets afterlives, species that don't get counted as having souls. It is a wrong in the world, and one I'm not shaped to address, especially."

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"There are worlds where no one gets afterlives?? There are species that don't get counted as having souls????"

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" - see, I think you'd do quite nicely."

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"Why aren't you on that??? Isn't this Your job??"

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"My job is purchasing as much for everyone as I can with everything I have. Life is among the things I try to purchase; life, and knowledge, and freedom, and happiness, and health, and space to grow in. It's your decision, right now, Carissa, how many resources I have to purchase things with."

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"Yes, yes. A few more questions first. Were you pursuing this conversation with the objective of getting me ambivalent enough about Dis that I wouldn't kill myself if the markets say you're doing it."

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"No. Your existing authorizations wouldn't be sufficient for what we'd want to do; you'd have to either agree to doing it or not do that. Or snap Cam's binding or issue him a very general authorization. I was not steering for those outcomes, because my extrapolation of what you'd want wouldn't permit that."

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"Do you think that the situation with Cam was mostly my fault or mostly his."

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"I mostly don't evaluate mortals in those terms. Both of you were trying quite hard and neither of you was taking fairly simple strategic actions that would've advanced your goals but that were hard for you to notice you had available or believe would help."

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This is not exactly the thing Carissa was on some level yearning to hear, though also it seems much much less important than it did an hour ago. 

And, well, no one ever said Iomedae was the god of meeting peoples' emotional needs.

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"Technically it's on the to-do list but in a complicated way where almost certainly before it got to the top of the to-do list it will stop making sense for me to exist in my present form."

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"I hope you realize that's horrifying and I hate it."

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"I do realize that. I promise you I did not set things up like this because I think it's okay when people who wanted to live instead die, or because I did not want to live."

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"So long as it's not a requirement." But she hadn't expected it would be. The claim 'you are actually Lawful Good' makes it feel much less likely that Lawful Good is actually about a bunch of ludicrous insane things.

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"You should probably get an Atonement, the spell, because it'll affect how everyone on Golarion parses you and make their impressions more accurate. As you surmised I don't think it much decreases the probability you go to Hell, though significant resources are being expended towards not-that. You are in fact still not actually acclimated to the stakes here and should expect most of your errors to be in the underrating-it direction for a while. If you're going to interact with Cam only do it when trying to win.

 

You would not go very wrong by imagining I had said 'I am proud of you'. You should immediately drop a couple hundred diamonds for resurrections on Lastwall's representative and tell them I told you to tell them they should all be used for rescue resurrections; you cannot do better than that for the people whose murder you personally enabled, and it won't be anywhere near doing right by them."

 

She doesn't ask if there's anything else, because She's reading Carissa's mind.

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And elsewhere, upstairs: 


"Carissa has decided to abandon Asmodeus, become Lawful Good, and assist in rescue operations in Hell. If anyone in your world has any proposals for that we'd want to see them. I am confident that diamonds you give her will be put to good uses, and she intends to ask you for some for rescue resurrections. Do you have any questions for me?"

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"Wow. I assume there is a great reason you don't do that all the time. Uh, I'll let everybody know -" He glances at his computer. "How am I going to afford a lawyer, if they cost a shitton of diamonds, or do I not need one anymore, or...?"

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"Ask Carissa to pay for yours too, I now expect she will. I don't do this all the time because it's a very expensive use of the extremely limited resource 'allowance to act on the Material'. One conversation or thousands of yes-or-no questions answered for my followers."

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"- should I talk to your paladins or something instead then? I mean, I have questions but I don't have a lot of them that I'm confident no one else could answer."

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"The marginal costs mostly track how much difference there is between what I'd tell you and what they would, and is I think worth paying in every case where those are in fact different. This is a fairly delicate and complicated situation and I now possess more context than anyone else on it."

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"Oh okay.

"Wow, if prayer worked this well every time I would have taken it up sooner. Can you not hear me because I'm Chaotic or was it just not a good time when I tried for you earlier?"

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"I don't have a lot of visibility on you because of the alignment difference and because one of your more prominent features when looked at closely is a dispreference to be looked at closely."

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"Yes, Kofusachi mentioned that but he did get as far as mentioning it and you didn't.

"Is it a good use of my time to - study Law as it is understood here?"

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"Plausibly. Some of Carissa's problems were specific to Carissa but I would be unsurprised if you also got off on an unnecessarily bad footing with some people who weren't Asmodeans, too, out of - not being good at predicting which features of a situation are nearly sacred to them."

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Nod nod. "Where's a good place to go to find out about that? Or, uh, a good person, I assume geographically speaking this is fine."

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"The Church of Abadar offers classes on Law which on Golarion are I think not pitched at you-like audiences but in Aktun might be. I think you're not looking for 'what is the social benefit case for enforcing contracts' but 'what is the case for expending a lot of thought and effort on the local style of predictability and ally-suitability', and I don't know what language gets used to distinguish those but I'd expect them to be different classes of wildly different utility to you."

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"No, yeah, I get why you want to enforce contracts and have laws, I'm not ideologically chaotic just - have spent a hundred fifty years living in an anarchy. I'm missing stuff like, if someone is currently Lawful how good a predictor of future behavior is that, what behavior does it in fact predict, what things will Lawfuls freak out about that I consider unimportant details."

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"Yep. I think in Carissa's specific case her Lawful reading reflects a serious underlying commitment, but that's not always the case. Probably there is a sociology-of-law-on-Golarion class on offer at a university near here. The thing that panicked her in your most recent fight was that she had understood 'no fuckery' to mean you didn't believe yourself to be gaining a new capability or achieving a significant effect on the world she hadn't intended, and then became convinced you were conceptualizing 'gaining a new capability' and 'achieving a significant effect on the world' sufficiently narrowly and without-reference-to-her-perspective that this commitment was meaningless from within her perspective. Which is the kind of problem societies in fact solve with contract law, and that is the solution I recommended to her."

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"Well, I bet they have lots of lawyers in the Lawful Neutral afterlife, I can find one I get along with who can translate for me." She could've just time-bounded it like he suggested!, but that sounds too whiny to suggest out loud. "Why are you here instead of Abadar or Kofusachi?"

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"I was once human. I retained skill with human presentation. Abadar and Kofusachi were never human, and cannot approximate it very well. My degree of skill with it is actually in a sense misleading, in that I am no longer very human, but it makes communication much more productive. I adjust my human presentation based on what the person I'm speaking with won't be mislead by, generally, though with you I am not checking closely how misled you are because you don't prefer to be checked that closely on that.

 

In addition to that, We expected I could convert Carissa, and they would have more difficulty doing so."

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"Do I have much scope to - do stuff on my own recognizance, or is she going to keep a tight hold on me even going forward -"

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"She'll want to go through lawyers to make sure she isn't giving you permission to destroy the whole plane but with that constraint I expect you'll be pretty free to work on things of interest to you."

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"- why does she even imagine I might want to destroy a whole plane?"

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"Because it is what I would ask you to consider doing, if Carissa were not firmly opposed. I want to cut the deep reaches of Hell off from the one where new petitioners arrive."

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"Oh. I mean, I'd also rather not. You could probably talk me into it, but some of them might be salvageable.

"Advice on Razmir?"

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"You should tell her that, I think it would mean more to her than you can imagine. I don't know what our other options are but - it sounds like there'll be billions of people looking for them.

Razmir is very puzzling to me. I don't trust him at all and if something goes horrendously wrong he would not be an implausible candidate for what but it may, in fact, be the case that everything he wants you can straightforwardly give him."

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"No idea how far I should trust his Law?"

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"I do not think it is sacred to him. Obviously it is pragmatically useful to him."

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Nod. "Uh, do I have to worry about my mind being read by impolite deities?"

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"They are ideologically distant from you and will have trouble getting much granularity but that is something that gods can do and will probably try to do."

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"Is there... anything to be done about that."

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"In Aktun Abadar can protect you. Spells like Mind Blank make it much more expensive. Going to one of the Evil afterlives would make it worse, and there are many other reasons to not do that without a lot of advance planning."

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Nod nod. "And... is Abadar in fact doing that?"

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"Yes. Heaven will do the same, if you come visit us."

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"Oh good. Uh, that does seem like it complicates sheltering under the Worldwound treaty, do we still need to do that?"

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"You do not need to if you intend to remain entirely in Axis and in Heaven, but it's still doing useful work if you ever leave, and there are various things you might want to leave for. You can probably do some supply shipments remotely while remaining under the treaty's auspices, it's not like people working on the Worldwound on an ongoing basis so that the treaty shelters them was unintended behavior."

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"I wasn't sure remote shipments counted, surely not everyone who sells food to the Worldwounders is covered?"

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"It's less persuasive to an evaluating body than actually exploding things, but not irrelevant."

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"Okay. Uh, if Carissa and I are going to communicate solely through lawyers and potential hangers-on no longer need to get along with both of us, should I have additional, I think the local term is 'party members'...?"

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"You should ask Lastwall for someone Teleport-capable and someone Plane-Shift capable, to take you places, handle translation, provide cultural competence, etcetera. That will be much more attainable for them once they've done the rescue resurrections I've asked Carissa to authorize; they'll be less pressed for people who could possibly do it."

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Nod nod. "I never did hear back from Sothis, do they have any interest in participating in the situation in any way that isn't just being Abadaran at things?"

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"They will want to trade you things; I think they're trying to stay out of the geopolitics."

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"How, uh, should I communicate with Lastwall about getting me magical chauffeurs, do I just - tell Carissa I want to send this request along with the wagonload of diamonds, or -"

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"You can summon someone here with whoever delivers the latest round of requests. When you tell them I was here they'll want as full of a transcript as you and Carissa are willing to give them."

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"Oh, should I have been taking more exact notes -" He goes back and annotates. "The requests have not been coming in person, is the thing, people are just writing my mail label or we could have avoided the most recent dustup."

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"I will tell them to show up. You may give them an exact transcript, if you would like, but you don't particularly owe it to them; some people find it easier to have the thoughts they want to have if they expect it to be private or at least not a prized part of the historical record."

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"- my half of the conversation is also going to be a prized part of the historical record?"

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"Almost everything they know of me on Golarion is nine hundred years old or is yes/no answers to tactical questions. The Church has maintained adequate fidelity, given that, but this is something I ordinarily cannot afford and that they do not possess. ...I was going to send an update to my holy book, with Aroden, when He returned for the Age of Glory."

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"Oh. Uh, well, as long as you're here do you want to give me a copy of the update or tell me where you wrote it down?"

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"Regrettably I didn't; that's not how gods communicate with each other. It would probably be good for my Church if they had access to Arodenite-era holy books that have been destroyed or lost, and I'm curious if they'd get anything out of the version of My holy book on other worlds where I operate, but I did not know that putting things to paper in words had the potential to be so outrageously useful.

The main thing they need is enough resources that not every tradeoff they make is a desperate sacrifice of one important thing for another. And you can give them that."

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"If Carissa is, uh, officially Good now, sure can." Wag wag.

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"The official reading's going to lag the fact of the matter by a bit. But she's Good, now, yes. Do you know how much harder Asmodeus could make my life if He weren't specifically attached to making people worse off for having dealt with Him?" She sounds very smug.

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"It does seem like a silly reputation to cultivate!"

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"Things on Golarion are - not the worst they've ever been, the Age of Darkness was probably worse, but much, much worse than anyone was prepared for. We've lost so much. I think there's real potential, here, for that to change. We'll have to play things very carefully, but this is much, much more chance at a better world than we've had in a very long time."

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Wagwagwag. "Thank you for bailing me out from my catastrophic failure at diplomacy."

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"Thank you for coming to fix everything wrong with the world that can be solved with material objects!"

 

And she'll go.

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Cam is going to... check his mail, actually, the peanut gallery may already have lawyer recommendations and Hell-takeover-plans for him.

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It has been twenty seconds in Hell since Iomedae knocked on his door.

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Ah. Right. Probably too soon for any responses.

He's gonna... go down the stairs, slowly, to receive any authorizations necessary to hiring lawyers so they never need to talk to each other again.

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Carissa has cleaned herself up and no longer looks like she's obviously been crying. "Hey. I'm so sorry for being an idiot. Iomedae wants to send her church to pick up a bunch of diamonds for rescue resurrections, I want conjurations to verify some claims she made about Hell if you're willing to do those, and then we can hire lawyers though it's somewhat less important."

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Cam nods. "What claims?"

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“Percentage of petitioners in Hell who become devils eventually, and percentage sorted to Abaddon who choose Hell. I don’t actually think She was lying, but I don’t want it to be the case that she could have. You will have to explain how in your world people do conjurations like this without worrying the apsel had the flexibility to be misleading.”

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"Working it into the original binding being impossible, you could say something like, to the extent and only to the extent that grains of sand you conjure straightforwardly represent what you request, you may conjure grains of sand. Do you want a -" book "copy of my lecture notes, are" we "you in a hurry?"

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"Only in the 'people are dying' sense not in the 'we have a time constraint' sense. I can authorize your recommended wording now, come back to it in a week once I've read the book if the book doesn't leave me confident that was adequate."

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"Okay. Just a moment." He fiddles with the wording on his computer till he has something he thinks is satisfactory - it's not that dissimilar from the initial version, though he puts "grains of sand" in brackets - and then displays it to her.

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She thinks for a minute and reads it out. 

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"I'm not certain that everything you mentioned is a conjurable parameter. I can try, though. Do you want to specify attempts or have me narrate what I'm doing while I try?"

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"I would appreciate it if you narrated attempts."

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"Do you have a time frame in mind for "eventually"?

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" - say ten thousand years? That's still very different but it'd be suggestive."

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"That may imply a number of petitioners necessary to evaluate that it would be more prudent to use individual water molecules instead of sand grains. Only about..." Computer. "Thirty two million grains of sand can fit in a gallon volume."

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"And you can't conjure for a representative sample? I've given you permission to make water in other contexts, would that make it easy to cheat a water-based version?"

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"No representative samples unless I'm narrowing by yet another conjurable parameter, which may harm representativeness. I can if I recall correctly only make liquid up to the volume of my mug, and I can do that several times but not while also using the conjuration forensically. I could do individual atoms of gold or something similar."

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"You can do the conjuration in individual atoms of gold."

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"Note that I can choose to stop conjuring in the middle in such a way that would make the result look smaller, and that I might for example if it looks like it's going to outgrow the house, but I can't intend to do that in advance because that would violate the misleadingness criterion. I can also just say words and then not make any gold, so you may want to verify this with a truth spell later."

And he starts in, making gold, in vaguely hemispherical lumps so they don't roll away. "These are the petitioners who entered Hell during the sidereal calendar year ten thousand years ago... these are those of that set of petitioners who currently still exist... these are those of that set of petitioners who currently exist and are still in Hell... I'm going to attempt 'members of the first set who are now devils' but I don't know if that's a conjurable parameter... looks like it is, though it's possible it's missing edge cases, like someone who is partway through becoming a devil or is some kind of borderline devilish species that my conjuration is counting as a different sort of thing..."

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It looks like maybe a tenth. 

 

She'll ask Axis for an estimate, too, later. 

 


"Thank you."

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"Of course.

"Persons sorted to Abbadon... doesn't seem to be conjurable, I can do where people are but not how they got there."

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"Huh, all right. I'll think about if there's another way to check that. 

Iomedae's church is going to be here wanting diamonds, I think. For resurrections."

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"Of among other things people who are dead because of choices I made."

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...nod.

"Uh, Iomedae suggested that I should repeat to you that I would - also rather not destroy Dis, some of the people there might be salvageable..."

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She looks surprised, for a moment, before she goes back to being unreadable, and blinks rapidly. 

"- you told Her that?"

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"Yes."

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"- good for you.

 

 

 

I - just know what I'd want, if it were me, and it's not for someone to destroy everything." Iomedae didn't even tell me I was wrong about that. 

 

"You may conjure diamonds for payment for the next hour while we're working on setting everything up."

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He nods. "Iron box?"

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"You can also make an iron box for the diamonds in the next hour, yeah."

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He puts an iron box on the coffee table. "Unless you have reason to suggest otherwise my inclination would be to wait on the diamonds until a representative arrives to collect."

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"That seems reasonable. I guess I should Sending them, actually, save Iomedae the intervention. She didn't tell me to do that but maybe if she tells me to do that then I haven't in fact saved her the intervention."

 

She'll start building the spell.

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Cam takes his mug off where he's hooked it to his belt and puts - tea in it, not coffee, he wants to be awake but he could use the theanine to calm down.

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She targets the cleric who brought them here. 

"Visit from Iomedae. Come quickly, we have diamonds for you."

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The woman from earlier is there less than a minute later, accompanied by some paladins.

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"Should we like, confirm their identities somehow or is this good enough," Cam asks Carissa.

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"In the next few minutes you can conjure in less than a pound of stone the current surroundings of the Iomedaen who helped us set up in Aktun earlier."

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"...doing that in a useful way would require also incorporating other materials we can see through."

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"All right, all right. You can do the mentioned conjuration in stone and glass."

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Glass and stone and yep there's little figurines of Cam and Carissa in a room with matching furniture in a glass house on an Aktun street. He puts it down next to the iron box, which he fills with diamonds.

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" - Iomedae spoke to you?" the cleric says while one of the paladins grabs the iron box full of diamonds like iron boxes weigh about as much as books. "What did She say."

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" - I don't actually know if I'm supposed to tell you that? She wasn't, uh, dictating Iomedaen theology, She was trying to hook me in particular as fast as possible. She'd have been constrained if She anticipated you'd hear it, in a way you probably don't want to constrain Her."

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"...She wouldn't do things that She wouldn't want Her church to know of. Wouldn't want printed on broadsheets, sure, there's plenty that people who don't have context will misinterpret as license to do terrible things, but - She is constrained to doing things that wouldn't damage our trust in Her by being a Lawful Good god in the first place."

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"Huh. I'll try to assemble a transcript to send over next time. You probably want to get back with the diamonds."

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"We do. Thank you both."

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"I have notes and I'll clean them up into a rendering of my part of the conversation for you."

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"Thank you." And a genuine smile as they Plane Shift out. "It's very very good to have you on board."

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"My pleasure."

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"Right. Let's hire some lawyers."

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Cam nods because that doesn't seem to require the degrees of freedom afforded by speaking. He'll follow her out to pay for lawyers for the both of them.

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Axis has: fewer law firms than they might think!
 
Axis lawyers are not, mostly, a dispute resolution service. A good court system should be accessible, reliable, and empty. Nobody wants to go to court when they could instead do basically anything else, so there is more of a market for avoiding legal disputes than for winning them.
 
Normal people, of course, only pay attention to the risks and contracts specifically relevant to them. Axis is the kind of Lawful that believes people should be able to count on "a normal life" not having hidden tripwires or recurring costs in attention and time just to exist. Legal systems are for when you're doing something that everyone else isn't doing.
 
"Licensing and franchise agreements for your bookstore full of derivative fiction with incomprehensible relations to its source material? We've handled thousands!" "Novelty personal transport that plays your favorite opera through the Doppler effect? We know noise and speed regulations in every district of Aktun and beyond!" A given firm will have a handful of specialties, not necessarily with any overlap because why should there be.
 
-Contract lawyers! Lots of these! This being Axis, they mostly don't bill themselves as helping you get the better end of the deal, or even as stopping the other party from getting one over on you. They advertise either minimum friction or minimum risk of future dispute. Phrases like "one call and keep on with your life" and "you'll never need to hear from us again" are common, and conversely so are "when you need reliability." Or even specific points along that curve: "95% the confidence of our most confident top competitor, 80% the simplicity of the simplest." Confidence is relative, of course-- everyone publishes their record on staying out of court and everyone has several nines.
 
(Litigators are few and far between, and advertise as "when all else fails.")
 
 
Carissa and Cam can filter out most lawyers just by not being interested in a normal Axis business transaction. That still leaves an awful lot of specialties, each with their own generally-recognized top tier. Many of the most sought-after law firms are concentrated in downtown Aktun's Good Start Plaza, in the lower address numbers of something that transliterates as C St.
 
-Cross-alignment negotiation specialists! Apparently a small field. One top firm claims that "our strong relationships with all other major specialists can guarantee you friendly mediation," and another emphasizes "all our attorneys have served in our branch in at least one differently aligned plane." (The intended claim being that they have people with experience understanding Chaos or Good or Evil, not that the branches' actual activities involve practicing law in the Maelstrom.) Several offer "Work with a team of your alignment, theirs, and any other!"
 
-One top cross-alignment specialist negotiated the property acquisition for Norgorber's divine domain, on behalf of the people selling it. "You haven't known untrusted until you've made a deal with the God of Crime!"*
*slogan suggested by Norgorber, we are 70% confident He was joking.
 
-Cross-species negotiation specialists, a much larger field. "Common interests but different basic psychology? We've been there." "Don't let cultural differences close off options!" "Experts in working toward you and your partner's goals, even if you think they're [untranslateable squiggle]." Humans are well-represented enough to feature in promotional material, though of course it's not obvious who in Axis still identifies with their birth species.
 
 
-Specialists in airtight contracts with no hidden clauses, for when you need absolute certainty with no other desiderata. "Three-time champion of the Loopholery Annual," one firm boasts. "Find a way to gain unintended advantage from any of these three contracts and you're hired," offers another. Testimonials indicate that if there's really no choice other than dealing with Asmodeans on their own terms, for anything more complicated than buying a loaf of bread, this is the right specialty.
 
-Unprecedented high-stakes situations not otherwise specified. "When you don't know what kind of legal help you need, but you definitely need something, we've got that. 93.01% confidence, satisfaction guaranteed or 93.01% of your money back." (This number is portrayed as regularly updating.)
 
-Harm reduction! (A fairly small specialty, in Axis.) "Considering something you might not endorse? Talk to us to find the least worst." Normal services include minimizing risks, minimizing lawbreaking, distributing the gains of a net-good action to make it closer to strict improvement, and lots of confidentiality. Large-scale services are...mostly confidential, on the grounds that the general public would have heard of them.
 
-"law for Chaotic people" services are extremely available, of course. But the ones through law firms mostly operate as an explanation of "how Axis works" for Chaotic visitors, toward the start of the fundamental spectrum between travel agencies and philosophers.

 

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Cam is inclined to talk to some cross-alignment negotiation specialists and go from there if they turn out not to be the right folks, and maybe also sign up for an explanation of how Axis works for Chaotic visitors, but he can escort and pay for Carissa's lawyers first given sufficient permission to then strike out alone after that, if she has a first port of call.

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She's fine with that. She....thinks she wants the airtight contracts people. No offense.

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"That seems fine." It would be wasted if Cam did not himself have any lawyers because he would simply look at the pages of legalese and go "wut" but he does not have to say why it seems fine. Airtight contract specialists.

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Pretty much anyone can wander in the door labeled Webster & Stone, LLP and get an appointment in five minutes for enough money. (The front desk staff assure them that this is true of businesses in general and they have no reason to think Cam's preferred choice of counsel would be an exception.) No one ever does, because for most people money is some amount of object. But there exists a quantity of conjuration where that really stops mattering. Carissa can have a lawyer in as little time as it takes to look up a current list of valuable substances.

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Right. 

 

Carissa recently summoned this outsider subject to this set of constraints. Then she gave him some permissions she didn't intend to be as broad as they are. Now she wants to give him permissions to solve a lot of problems in the world such as material scarcity, while absolutely categorically not giving him the ability to destroy Hell, or any other places, or any people he can't already destroy because he can create air inside their bodies because she let him make air. Is she in the right place.

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She's in the right place. They can get her in a room with Webster or Stone personally right away. (And also with Cam? The attorney does make sure to advise Cam that this firm is representing Carissa's interests, not his, and for something this important it's recommended that he retain his own counsel. Ordinarily the counterparty would not be present during an initial meeting, but if nothing is confidential from Cam then it's less important.)

 

Rest of the news is worse.

 
So, the first thing to note is that it's impossible for any contract to actually prevent Cam from destroying the world. Or Cheliax, or Carissa, or probably any specific enemy he knows the location of. Conventional wisdom is that no contract can enumerate every possible bad outcome. Safest you can do is start with "the parties agree not to do anything at all" and add in very narrow exceptions. A careful enough drafting effort can make it arbitrarily hard to find a gap that allows whatever malfeasance, but no lawyer will claim it's categorically impossible for the letter of any contract to prevent everything. You can cover more distance by prohibiting actions "calculated to" or "predicted to" reach certain results, but then you're relying on your counterparty's reasoning or even (gasp) their good faith and that has its own problems. (Admitting that might not be typical of Axis lawyers.)
 
But also Cam already has that power. If "you can make food for yourself" allowed sending letters to heads of state as long as they were printed on potatoes, it clearly doesn't mean "for yourself to eat" and does mean something more like "for your own purposes," and probably allows just blotting out the sun and drowning Golarion in a tide of Cam's favorite refreshing beverage. They are, in some sense, relying on Cam personally whether they want to or not. Webster is a professional and is not even thinking that this is Carissa's fault.

Which isn't to say a contract can't help. Many people follow contracts even when it's not literally outside their power to breach them, and that's not always just because Axis judges will frown at them. Spelling out what is and isn't agreed to can still be extremely useful for the understanding of the parties. (And for enforcement in Axis courts, to the extent that matters here.)

Their main recommendation is to get an extensive list of things Carissa cares about and would want to protect with a contract, then draft a very strict set of standard permissions covering both physical safety (limits on mass, volume, and composition; probably just rule out exotic types of matter completely; in a defined location in space occupied only by air, etc.) and just as importantly purpose (conjurations not known to Cam to harm Carissa's stated interests in any way not explicitly known to her, with any alleged accidents to be judged by what was known or should have been known at the time, conjurations intended only for the explicit purposes described, disclaiming and forfeiting any use of the permissions outside the scope of that agreement). Ideally, this contract would apply to existing permissions as well.

Once they draft a set of permissions, she can allow conjurations per-occasion with these as usual rules. (Assuming the outsider's binding allows incorporating definitions by reference?) Or by the relevant one of a small number of usual rules, depending on what scale of creation it's meant to be.

Meanwhile, if Cam's society of origin is as described, they almost certainly already have a set of best practice limitations for safety and nothing else. Whatever they have will be biased toward more leeway, of course. If that exists they should ask Cam for a copy, after drafting their own best effort, and use the stricter of each wherever they overlap.

 

If they understood it correctly, the only part of any agreement that will be magically enforced is the physical limitations on future permissions. Everything else is just a regular contract. And it sounds like Cam would not particularly be deterred by breach of contract damages, if he could just say "sorry your country's army got suffocated in mashed potatoes, here's an unfathomable amount of money." They don't have a proposal for that problem nearly as good as magical prevention, but can at least make sure it's worse for Cam so his incentive is to follow the contract. Their best proposal for that problem is liquidated damages where Cam puts the unfathomable amounts of money in escrow now, to belong to Carissa only in the event of a severe breach and judgment to that effect. Carissa still only has the one threat, and a contract can't undo any breach. But it can mean that if she does need to kill herself (and be resurrected or not as she chooses), Cam would still be banished and her threat becomes that much more credible if he knows she'd be set for life as the next best thing to a Power in Axis.

So the main question for Carissa is the details of what her interests are. Absolutely not destroying people or places is a good start. They can suggest other kinds of harm aside from direct injury: sabotaging projects of individuals or groups, equipping enemies of states, creating Chelish air at scale could effectively steal Cheliax's weather and they might have to get things like that with a general prohibition on knowingly causing statistical harm... They can go on like this for a while.

Anything aside from people and places? Causes she's committed to or existing promises she needs to keep it consistent with? If there are more things than avoiding destruction they might have to get into how to handle tradeoffs. But if she thinks there aren't and is wrong, those tradeoffs will inevitably come up at the worst possible time.

 

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(If they want all existing prior art on how summoning negotiations normally work it is all available in the First Vault but possibly not in a convenient format for them. Also this is an incredibly bizarre situation by Earth summoner standards and there very likely is no prior art on "you have an apsel, you can dismiss him but can't summon a replacement, your summoning circle was intended for a totally different situation, and you want material objects so you'd rather not dismiss him".)

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Carissa is so relieved. This is in fact precisely the thing that she wanted and she should've just insisted on it immediately but there's not a lot of point of being angry at herself for that, or for anything else. She doesn't think Iomedae would bother. 

 

...she's not sure what she wants, aside from 'everything not getting destroyed'. She thinks she prefers, you know, that children go to wizard school and that the Worldwound be closed and that famines and bad things end? She'd like the people she personally sent to Hell to be compensated for this? Probably she wants a lot more things she hasn't thought of because until yesterday she had exclusively encountered Asmodeanism as a philosophy of wanting things. 

She likes the idea of contracts where if Cam is being enough of a menace to the universe that she has to kill herself she gets enormous damages in a vault in Axis. That sounds pretty good.

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If Carissa's sure she wants to go with these Cam can put down a retainer for them and go find his own lawyer to look at whatever they settle on?

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Yes, these are who she wants. 

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Then he can wait while they hammer out an agreement that looks like it will let him pay for these guys and his guys and then drop some material objects and go find his guys.

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Payment agreement is easy. They can reference known items listed in a specific catalog, and show off some extensive safety clauses that don't matter at all if Cam is just paying them but could matter, if he were to suddenly turn any of certain specific varieties of hostile, and honestly it's probably there as much for the demonstration to Carissa as Cam. (Most annoying is definitely the contractual obligation to think for at least one minute about any ways this conjuration could be harmful that he does not know them to be expecting, which predictably comes back negative.)

 

Carissa's stated interests are a pretty good starting point! Ideally she'd be able to spell out everything she wants all at once, but most people can't actually do that and make do with amendments. These particular goals are also pretty convenient; having a lot of them shared with Cam suggests that there are many more possible agreements they could make. In particular it opens up more options for remedies-- perhaps in the event of a breach that violates an agreement's intent, Carissa should get to declare that they're going to stop what they're doing and go make a random country rich, or something else that serves both of their prosperity-related goals, and save the extreme option of moving to Axis for a breach where she reasonably believes Cam to be a direct threat. But this is separate from all the safety issues and is going to take a lot of drafting in its own right.

 

...there is, actually, prior work on compensating people who spent a short time in Hell. Not very much, of course; people don't often get out at all, let alone happen to have an identifiable responsible party with both of them being in Axis. Estimates of what it would take to compensate them approximately fairly are very large, especially in a case where the main resource is money. But there is a number. Would it serve that interest of Carissa's to just...pay them.

This would also result in anyone Iomedae resurrects being wealthy as Axis counts wealth which could make them personally a geopolitical power on Golarion. Whether she wants to do that with vaguely Chelish-aligned people, or for that matter people who might now be explicitly hostile to Cheliax, is. Well. It seems like the kind of point where some of what she wants might diverge.

 

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...yeah, giving a few random returnees from Hell more money than the Queen seems. Probably like a stupid thing to do. Especially if she can't do it for other people who are in the exact same situation but were on assignment to a different fortress - this line of reasoning is how you end up just being Iomedae, isn't it. Carissa appreciates that Iomedae did not just make her into Iomedae and is going to be kind of annoyed if that's where she ends up at the end of the day anyway.

Maybe she can give them what seems to her to be a reasonable amount of compensation, like a really nice headband and a lot of spellsilver. She would personally forgive being tortured for years if she got a really nice headband and a lot of spellsilver out of it. And then they can gradually get more things over time but in a noncatastrophic way. 

 

Carissa thinks she has most of her interests in common with Cam, really, and yet they still ended up in a situation where they were furious with each other and didn't trust each other and he was secretly communicating with Cheliax's enemies and she didn't have anything to do about it but kill herself. Her highest hope of this whole legal situation is that they can just do something less stupid than that. That's also - she doesn't know how to articulate it precisely, not in terms of 'what she wants', but Axis existing is better than Axis not existing, even if she personally owns none of it - even if she'd personally gone to Hell - and Cam being here is good in that way, it is the kind of good that Axis existing is good. And she wants to enable it, so long as the world doesn't get destroyed and the Outer Planes don't go to war.

- she's not sure that 'figuring out what you want' is what lawyers are for. Possibly in addition to a lawyer she needs a - mother? Wow, that'd be pathetic, she is twenty-six. A priest? The problem is that Iomedae's won't live up to the god. A headband. She would like a priority of early contract-signing to be enabling the deal with Razmir (or with someone else, she's not picky) where she gets a really nice headband.

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It's not mostly what lawyers are for (she'll be answered if she says that part out loud), but it does come up. Especially in this office, because nailing down exactly what you want in enough detail for a contract to protect against malicious opponents is actually just hard. Even in Axis. There's a sense in which everything you are glad of being true, or would approve or disapprove of if it happened, anything you notice at all with more than indifference, is "an interest of yours." That sense doesn't usually matter, but it does if you're doing things like making hopefully-ironclad contracts with powerful entities. Only letting through things that are genuinely unimportant if they go wrong no matter how wrong they go can get uncomfortably close to listing off literally everything you care about.

 

But achieving something less stupid than giving up and banishing Cam, that's easy.

 

A contract would in fact have helped there. Agreeing on what types of actions and benefits-derived are within the scope of what conjurations would have prevented most of the problems that were likely to come up, including the ones that did. Obviously Cam was not behaving like a very contract-following type of person, but the other benefit of a contract is that it's at least more undeniable what is and isn't agreed to. "No fuckery" is not actually specific enough to call the kinds of things he did a breach.

And they do have more options for remedies, now. They've talked about liquidated damages and veto power over projects, but options other than suicide range from "just operate on separate continents" (if this breaks down in a way where Carissa is sure she wants to enable Cam but they can't stand working together for whatever reason) down through "comfortable cell where Cam can't do much except favors for vetted visitors" (if he is a threat to the world but would rather agree to confinement than be sent home). Everything is still ultimately backed by threat of Carissa's suicide, but in the kind of way where it's obvious there are other things both sides would rather try first.

 

Razmir. It sounds like most of the problems there have been with inability to trust Razmir, more than with Cam. (They can absolutely still get contract terms promising that Cam will not attempt to get Carissa Dominated or similar, of course.) Going for a headband early is a straightforward investment in resources, the kind of thing counterparties negotiate about all the time. That can start at the top of the list.

....would it help if they drafted a contract for dealing with Razmir? Safe conduct and usage restrictions on items from Cam are both simpler than the Cam situation. It sounds like Razmir and his people were already on that, but if you're worried about loopholes it's safer to be the party putting words to paper.

 

(And if she wants to undercompensate resurrectees from Hell, that's even easier. A footnote. Very good off-the-shelf magic items can in fact be found on shelves, and ones even better than that just mean buying more of Razmir-or-whoever's time.)

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Carissa finds all of this very soothing and would be delighted by a contract for deaiing with Razmir and a contract for future negotiation-breakdowns with Cam and some undercompensation for people retrieved from Hell whose pathway there involved Carissa particularly. She hopes that Cam is having as productive a time with his own lawyers and was an idiot for not coming here first.

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Cam is finding his guys. Hello, specialists in cross-alignment negotiation, he is a Chaotic Good outsider from even farther away than Elysium and he is under some constraints from an until-recently-lawful-evil-now-???-after-talking-to-Iomedae human.

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...there's a first time for everything.

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The standard spiel, as told to people who have normal problems in this genre, starts by saying that alignment is a shortcut. Just because Law is an ideal to aspire to doesn't mean it actually does anything in negotiations other than tell you a little bit about how the other person thinks. (Not even all that much! Someone can project "Lawful" and have that name mean all sorts of specific things, after all, and some of them are Razmir.) If you're working cross-alignment you can't instantly trust your counterparty on questions like "a fair split of profits," but you can't always do that anyway. You're doing without the shortcut and that's fine.

The good specialists, such as the ones here at Swift 4.8.3.3, won't give Cam the standard spiel. They can avoid assuming most people are Lawful Neutral and like it. (He might still notice the Lawful Neutral baseline hanging around in the background.) For Chaotic Good people, it sometimes helps to think of this whole "Lawful" construct as less a fundamental force of the universe and more just a bunch of people doing their own thing, except that it's the same thing and they're doing it because it scales well.

...although some people can get very annoying about how everyone else should be Lawful. Other people might make it a pillar of their personal identity, and it sounds like Carissa might be doing that one. Not to armchair speculate, but Carissa might have been thinking of Law as the source of every good thing because in Cheliax that was basically true. That particular issue tends to get less pronounced with exposure to. Like. The universe.

But yes! People in Carissa's position thinking Cams are fundamentally untrustworthy is a common problem! The most basic thing that needs doing from Cam's side is showing the Lawful person that it is actually possible to form expectations around his future actions at all. Convincing her of specific choices Cam would or wouldn't (or could or couldn't) make-- it's hard for that to be reassuring without a shared foundation of "it matters to this person whether things are logical." Which Lawful types sometimes conflate with alignment.

When any miscommunication can sound like something unexpected and anything unexpected can pattern-match to "this person is Fundamentally Unpredictable," the usual solution is to go through intermediaries. You can talk to your lawyers talk to my lawyers talk to me. A trained mediator will respond to things like "is pointing out you could already communicate with Lastwall a threat" with either "no" or "let me confer with my principal" and then "no." Or "yes, and here's what it was trying to accomplish and why it seemed like the best option," but it's usually no.

They can work out the communication problems easily enough, especially since Iomedae already handled some unknown amount of that. Assuming the process is taken care of, what does Cam substantively want from an agreement? Ability to conjure on his own recognizance, ability to directly oppose Cheliax, a promise that Carissa won't banish him?

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"I don't even have a plan for directly opposing Cheliax at this time! I want to, uh, indirectly oppose Cheliax, by giving its enemies stuff. I would appreciate very much the ability to make everyday objects - replace my computer, get a change of clothes now and then, conjure reference materials - going through her about stuff like massive amounts of diamond isn't fundamentally unreasonable but it does reduce my ability to react in an emergency if something comes up - and I can understand why she would be freaking out about my ability to make everyday objects given what happened with the potato letters, but it remains really inconvenient and nerve-wracking to be without, right now I can't even replace my computer if something befalls it."

He'd also really like to not be banished, but like, not under all possible circumstances, like if someone has mind-controlled him and is using him to let Rovagug out or something.

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Broader existing permissions are the kind of thing that's easier to negotiate at one remove. If they say "this permission will not allow any harm Cam can't already do through the medium of potatoes" then it won't come across as threatening.

In Axis this would involve a lot of representations by Cam that this is actually true, or when something does remove a meaningful constraint they can agree to limitation on what he'll use the new permissions for. A conjuration "for informational purposes only" would be understood to let him make whatever scale models are most convenient and have it actually not matter whether the material is specified not to be diamond or a critical mass of something extremely deadly, because using it to enrich or destroy someone would be outside the agreement. People outside Axis usually prefer to think in terms of what they can and can't do, more than what purposes they can use which things for, but they may end up having to do both.

They can almost certainly at least get advance permission for duplicates of anything Cam currently has. Possibly with time limitations, depending on Carissa's current paranoia level about things he can do with a network of computers that he can't do with one. Beyond that, one possible plan is to negotiate for blanket permission to make anything in common use by human civilians in Cheliax, or some other Golarion country. That would probably allow enriching countries without further permission, while also preventing anything exotic if Carissa is still worried about that. Anything commonly used by human civilians in Cam's world of origin would be far better, but that they'd be asking Carissa to agree to blind.

...the everyday objects problem might just be solvable with money. Cam could create a duplicate of his normal living space, plus duplicates of some everyday objects exactly as he previously conjured them, and with written explanations if those exist for anything where the function isn't obvious. They could get people to inspect them (possibly involving magic unknown to Cam) and confirm they are what they appear to be. This might not catch everything, if at home Cam has a toothbrush that is also a death ray, but truth magic might cover that gap. Could be worth trying; if having a whitelisted supply of normal items would make Cam less nerve-wracked that's genuinely very important.

Emergency clauses are a good idea. Obviously the binding doesn't know or care what's an emergency, but could Carissa authorize creating a chunk of diamond once, without specifying a time? If it's nonmagically agreed to be for paying people in emergencies, Cam would at least have to report it or go without next time he needs it. Then he could betray Carissa and do damage up to one Wish, which is a lot, but since the stakes they're playing for are much bigger than that she might consider the information worth it. Or just actively want him to have the resource in case she gets Dominated or similar. If she thinks she's more likely than Cam to have that problem.

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If he makes diamond dioramas they could be stolen - presumably this is unlikely in Aktun, but it seems worth mentioning.

Duplicates permission would be good, it'd let him change clothes and not be so protective of his computer and violin. Uh, in the interest of full disclosure, this would without some careful phrasing allow him to install chiplock computers in people, which he frankly cannot think of any reason whatsoever to do without their consent but might reasonably want to do without Carissa's.

He doesn't know what is in common use where in Golarion but the peanut gallery can help with that.

His toothbrush is not a death ray; duplicating his house would be slightly complicated because he does have a black hole and a swimming pool but not in a way that can't be worked around pretty straightforwardly. He doesn't keep all the things he might need around in his house, though, because when he's in his house, he doesn't need anyone's permission to make a dustcloth or a dish to replace one he drops or anything like that. Duplicates of things he already has and maybe a few electronic peripherals he can swear are equivalent in function to the ones built into the shuttle they abandoned on the moon would do the trick.

Carissa is, to the best of Cam's understanding of how his current binding is functioning, able to authorize creation of one diamond of a particular size at an unspecified time.

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The way they'd pitch a duplicate-household-items permission to Carissa--well, to a generic person who cares a lot about their Lawful identity; Carissa herself currently has a lot of question marks--is that both sides should try to be the kind of negotiating partner who reliably makes their counterparty better off. Even in a case like this one, where making each other better off compared to doing nothing at all is pretty trivial, a good Lawful person isn't going to impose costs for no reason. They expect they can have Lawful people convince her of that if she doesn't already agree.

Wanting comfortable or familiar things is pretty normal! Carissa seems likely to see it as unimportant, maybe even as weak (because Cheliax). But a perfectly Lawful person who had those opinions would still agree this is a cost she's imposing on Cam and would stop doing that if she could. Then they'll just have to show her it isn't trading off against any new risk of malfeasance or world-destruction if Cam conjures his... everything except his black hole, that's worse than a death ray actually.

It's also strategically useful, right, for Carissa to see more of what kinds of material prosperity are available. She probably has a better guess than Cam's of which household objects would be tempting as luxuries to people like Razmir, or life-changing for ordinary people on Golarion. So it's not just trading a side project for vague human comfort. If doing it once would make them better at their goals then they might as well check for detectable risks and whitelist things afterward. Having it be specifically Cam's stuff shouldn't be strictly necessary, if having his house and effects examined sounds privacy-violating; it's just that "duplicates of things that have been in Cam's house in the last however long" should get him the permissions he needs while being obvious that it's at least not selected for any hidden dangers.

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Cam's diary is chiplocked and his house per se isn't particularly private! Well, he does have a drawer of sex toys but maybe these will be life-changing for ordinary people on Golarion, who knows, at any rate he is not particularly private about their existence.

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Convenient. Carissa has already agreed in principle to conjuring things only Cam recognizes to pay Razmir with, so it Wouldn't Be Very Lawful Of Her to object to the safest possible version of allowing it. What limitations she asks for will be pretty informative about what they're even negotiating with right now. Getting from there to a whitelist is hopefully achievable.

 

Aside from his active Worldwound-closing efforts, Cam's other obvious bargaining chip is refusing to make things. Right now most of what they're doing is pursuing common goals, but at what level of frustration would he just quit? Hare off to do whatever, with the limited conjuration ability he has, and take the risk of being banished about it?
(If the answer isn't never, they should make sure to phrase it in a way that doesn't come across as a threat. It's not obvious whether Carissa understands decision theory.)

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It's... probably not never but he's actually having a hard time thinking of situations where it would get to that point. He would have to be running pretty low on common goals but somehow confident that he could get something worth doing accomplished in the time before being banished and unable with all the lawyers material objects can buy to get Carissa to come around on it.

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That is exactly the kind of thing that's objectively a very conciliatory answer but also might sound terrifying. It might come across to the counterparty like "it's not my first resort, but no promises I won't eventually have an ultimatum and end up seeing what I can get away with." If they're Lawful and wrong. They'd have to be pretty hostilely predisposed, but, well.

On the less-in-need-of-translation side, it sounds like Cam would be judging possible deals here in terms of goals and accomplishing things worth doing? As opposed to whim or aesthetics or personal dignity. Especially that last one; a lot of people in Cam's position would object to the baseline assumption Carissa shared with many other summoners that Cam should be controlled and any deviation from that is a threat. Anyway, there's any number of perfectly valid desiderata that people sometimes base their thinking on. But if Cam's first thought is about what he can achieve then that's a very familiar language to many Lawful people.

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It is not ridiculous for summoners to want to control their summonses! Cam has been on many such summonses and kept coming back for more. It's just adversarial and inefficient in all the ways adversarial relationships usually are. Uh, having had a little while longer to mull on it he thinks all situations where he would quit and run off would be information-disclosure-type situations, that being the sort of thing that can be accomplished very fast and without much conjuration freedom. Inconveniently that is also kind of the thing that Carissa is most intensely jumpy about. He'd really like an updated list of who she considers her enemies and what interactions with/about them are okay.

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Agreed. Hard to negotiate properly without knowing what the other side wants, but at least it's obviously not in Carissa's interests to withhold that list.

The usual solution for secrecy problems is an NDA. Obviously there's the problem that any situation where Cam is considering an attempt to just leave is one where mo agreement can really be enforced, but does he think he'd hold to one voluntarily? Relatedly, are there things Carissa might say or do that would provoke him into spilling relevant beans, that she could agree not to do?

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Inconveniently Cam has to acknowledge about himself that he might be the sort of person who'd get incredibly cute with any NDA that he wouldn't instead break by accident - either it's trying to hermetically seal information such that he can't act on it at all and he doesn't think he can, in fact, do that, or he's allowed to stare at people making helpful facial expressions and occasionally reminding them that he's under an NDA, he's not aware of a really clever way around that but maybe the Axis lawyers are?

The hypotheticals are getting pretty abstract for him, can they give him some toy problems to hook his intuitions to?

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Suppose Carissa resolves her current situation in favor of being uncomplicatedly Asmodean, at least as much as that's possible for a philosophy that's sometimes opposed to people being uncomplicatedly things. They negotiate an agreement that covers closing the Worldwound and doing absolutely nothing else. As soon as they pull that off, Carissa announces she's not interested in any further deal and has made resurrection arrangements, and immediately stabs herself.

If Cam had previously agreed to secrecy on some topic, would he at that point follow the agreement? Or would he use Carissa's last moments to hand Lastwall and Sothis and Razmir a pile of information- and calorie-dense material goods?

If so, that's equivalent to not being able to make the agreement, which is what the Lawful people think of as the problems with Chaos.

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...if she kills herself he probably won't have time? Also, uh, the First Vault now contains all that information. But if he imagines that she accidentally misses and dies a more lingering death he - okay, maybe tries to administer medical attention, but supposing he can't do that for some reason... he would certainly be tempted to do the chaos thing but he does not actually have prepared a care package appropriate for that situation and doesn't have to prepare one.

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So that sounds like he's not approaching an agreement as really giving up the future option. And that's fine. No one here is going to try to convert Cam into being Lawful enough to go "well, the deal was worth it in expectation, so now I have to just let her banish me." That still leaves them in the situation where everyone expects the last move to be defecting in any way available. At least if there ever is a clear last move, which hopefully they can avoid with an agreement that lasts indefinitely.

Standard procedure here is to find anything at all where they can trust each other-- usually at least that he'll reliably pursue his own interests, and that that includes following whatever deal they make. That can work in specific cases, maybe even lots of specific cases, probably more than Carissa expects with her Law-related blinders.

He's already thinking along the right lines of how that might work for an NDA. If Cam can't easily mass-spread information, they can probably fill that gap with a verified statement that violating secrecy would take work he has not done, has no intention of doing without notice, and maybe an estimate of how much. Probably repeated regularly to confirm nothing changed. This could maybe work as long as Cam values the continued ability to do things directly more than he wants Lastwall-or-whoever to have a complete set of whatever technology and textbooks Cam could get them.

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Yeah, he is willing to verify that he has not done the curation and format conversion work that it would take to render down the Library of Hell into something more useful, has no intention of doing it without notice, has not commissioned or sought directions to a completed form of this work from another apsel, and would take, say, at least fifteen minutes to have something more useful than dangerous to drop on an ally? It wouldn't take that long if summoning worked here but it seems it does not so it'd all have to be technology stuff.