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Now that it won't attract endless suspicion they hang out downstairs. He asks Cam for the engineering notes on the necklaces and teaches the delighted younger versions of his parents how to do it. They are happier, more in love, less paranoid than his parents ever were. He does not share this. 

At Mingling's age he did not leave any thoughts in public. He doesn't share this either. 

There are videos of his and Findekáno's children. He watches them until he no longer finds them deeply upsetting. 

He has Findekáno ordered not to give anyone any reason to believe anything is wrong. Findekaáno seems perfectly relaxed and happy - which he should be, hope of defeating the Enemy having suddenly presented itself. They record some more songs. 

They're alone in the bar when the door next opens.

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In walks somebody who looks like a slightly younger, substantially less appendaged Cam, stark naked, recently systematically brutalized but not to the point of the loss of the use of his limbs, who seems unbothered by these facts as he walks in with unfocused eyes and looks at things in places that don't have things in them - ignores the exploding stars, doesn't see the people, calls "Aydanci? Honey? I need the day off, can you -" -

- the door shuts and his knees buckle with sudden pain, he blinks and sees the bar and Midnight and Findekáno, seems to recognize them -

"I think something is wrong with me," he says in a small voice, and he collapses unconscious.

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He will scoop him up and carry him to the infirmary - ask the bar he tells Findekáno - and then the Bells - another one of you just wandered in and collapsed, taking him to the infirmary -

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"Is that another instance of Cam and Miranda and Mirelótë -"

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Yes.

The mage in the infirmary heals the Bell and reminds Maitimo of the nudity policy.

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"He walked in like that, if Cam doesn't come down in a couple minutes I can try to find him something but the bar did give him a door -"

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"Yeah, I get it, and it'd about kill my friend to have to stick him in a cell but it's not worth our jobs, you've got layers on, maybe loan him something if you want to go back out before his twin shows up."

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"Okay. We'll stay here until he wakes up - were there injuries that weren't visible, I don't know, can you do diagnostics -"

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"Nothing precise but yeah, he was real fucked up. Not sick, though, just hurt."

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Cam?

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I'm coming, where are you?

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Infirmary. 

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Cam's there a moment later. Puts the other Bell in jeans and a T-shirt. "What, uh, happened -?"

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He sends the memory.

 

 

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"I don't know what to make of that. Maybe he'll be more comprehensible when he wakes up."

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"Recognized Findekáno and I. Very carefully and very badly injured."

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"Well. Thanks, Tse Lux. Midnight, can you put him on the sofa? I'll read up on wherever he's from, I guess."

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He picks him up. 

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"It looked like he recognized you in a positive way? Whereas I'll be bewildering and the girls'd be strangers - do you want to hang out and be there when he wakes up -"

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"Of course. And yes, I think he knows a me -" Couch. He waves Findekáno over. "He doesn't have a belly button. I don't know if the first Arda humans had belly buttons."

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"Yeah that's weird."

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- the new Bell starts muttering in his sleep.

And then screaming, not even words, just bloodcurdling agonized cries until he runs out of air.

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"- Jesus, what the - wake him up -"

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He's already shaking him -

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New Bell's eyes open briefly but he can't hold them that way, he's awake long enough to take a breath and drops off again. The screaming doesn't resume immediately.

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He exhales, looks back up at Cam - "we can help you read about his world, maybe the healing messed something up somehow -"

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"Maybe." He gets book recommendations, appears a couple of titles near Midnight and Findekáno, picks one up himself.

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They start reading too.

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Cam quizzes Bar, between paragraphs - the bellybutton thing is normal there; the screaming in his sleep isn't -

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- the screaming picks up again.

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What if he tries singing him something - deeper sleep, a painkiller -

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Painkiller does nothing; deeper sleep makes him scream more quietly.

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"Is that an improvement - do you have drugs or something -"

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"I don't even know what this is, it could be nightmares or some weird otherworldly condition, he doesn't have a navel I'm not going to introduce drugs to his system."

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"Magic isn't inherently safe either -" can they get anywhere by waking him up this time -

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Brief sleepy whimpering, not fully awake, and then it's back to All Screaming All The Time.

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"Can we get him to open his door in his sleep, get help somehow -"

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"He came in covered in recent injuries and obviously hallucinating, I'm not sure we'd like whatever's there."

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"Yeah, I'd feel fairly justified in reading their minds and they would probably at least know what's going on."

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"...He's not spontaneously bleeding or anything and the infirmary does the 'categorically sufficient' thing like Security does, I want to see if he can sleep it off and then talk to him first."

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Nod.

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"...but I am going to call Timothy down to get him to stop hollering audibly." He pulls out his computer and writes.

New Bell, this one's a face match. Midnight got him to the infirmary and he's no longer all cut up but he's now asleep and screaming; trying to play it conservatively and wait till we can talk to him and give him a chance to sleep it off before trying to get his door open or drug him or anything like that but can you do a spell to keep him quiet, it's disconcerting.

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And he comes downstairs.

 

And casts something; now they can't hear him. "I assume you've tried things -"

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"Yes."

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He sits down next to Cam and puts an arm around him. "Where's he from -"

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"Have a book." Book.

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He starts reading.

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It's an interesting world. Spontaneous human babies, storks, creches, magic robot things, city-state organizational habits, one big continent and a handful of little ones and islands, absolutely no explanation for screaming in his sleep.

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Elves are upset about the spontaneous babies.

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Of course they are. "Do we know your alt's name?"

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"No. We can assume it has Bell in it somewhere and maybe something with an M and an R in it."

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"Yeah, seems like a constant. I'm not seeing anything here that would explain the injuries. Or the screaming."

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"Or recognizing Midnight and Findekáno - Findekáno do you have a nickname, I know you're the only one around but others do exist and it seems like New Bell probably has one at home -"

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"Yeah, we should probably have a schema too - can you check for alts of us in his world, or would you need names for that..."

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"...I might be able to go off 'alt of you' -" Check. "- but his world doesn't have you, if I can -"

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"...could be lookalikes and not alts -"

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"I also don't think he'd have looked at us like that if he knew human alts of us. That wasn't 'wait a second you look very much like someone I know but a different species' - he thought he'd run into his versions -"

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"His world's only got humans. Unless the hallucination thing has something to do with it -"

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"Lacking an explanation for the hallucination thing I couldn't say. Maybe his world has a tiny population of extremely secret Elves, or something. They went into hiding because the spontaneous babies were too upsetting, he found them, hijinks ensued?"

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That resulted in those injuries. He raises an eyebrow at Midnight.

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Crossed my mind, but he didn't look afraid of me. "We wouldn't be hiding. Not without a lot of considerations that all didn't make it into print - how about Elves in his world, is that a thing you can conjure for -"

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"Tiny basement dwellers, coming right up."

He gets a small pile of Elves, none of whom are redheads.

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" - well. They'd have known me, maybe he knew of us from them - or maybe we used to have alts and they're dead -"

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"He looks, like, eighteen -" Cam goes stepwise year by year. The pile of tiny basement dwelling Elves does not change until it disappears completely.

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They cannot think of any explanation. "...maybe he's been to Milliways before, and that's how there are Elves in his world? If he landed on mine some people might choose to leave, either to help his or to get out from under the Valar -"

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"Could be something like that... are these chip or soul -" They're soul, turns out.

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"I know them," he says, squinting at the tiny figurines. 

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"Does the assortment suggest anything?"

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"Not especially - uh, if we're assuming he met them in Milliways or something it's not an implausible selection of people - they're not the people I'd pick to have wanted to leave most, but our world's non-standard, and they get along with each other and - hmm, the Arda's 1460 or earlier, she got married and her husband isn't here -"

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"None of them is named 'Aydanci', I assume."

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"No."

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"We might have to wait for him to wake up and ask him questions."

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Nod. 

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Eventually the new Bell stops screaming, even silently, and dreams something pleasanter and mouths inaudible words where he's laid out on the sofa.

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He cancels the spell.

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"Plectrum," says the new Bell. "Glorious."

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"We all do that in our sleep."

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"It's adorable."

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"Apparently some of Miranda's roommates hate it and she has to do that spell before she goes to bed every night, but to each their own."

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"Miranda's roommates are closedminded and silly. Some of them will grow out of it. It's adorable. - we could ask Bar if new Bell's been here before -"

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"Ooh good idea - Bar -"

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Not that I can recall, although my memory does not extend infinitely.

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"But he's like eighteen so probably no."

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It is entirely plausible that a trillion years have passed for me in his most recent week.

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"The differentials get that big? Okay."

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I don't remember ever catching one that size, but of course I could only do so every trillion years or so.

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"Do they get that big in the other direction? A trillion years in a world without much time passing for you?"

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I see no reason why it could not.

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Nod. And more waiting.

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Eventually the new Bell wakes up on his own.

He opens his eyes and shuts them and mutters very quietly "this part is easier if I'm on fire".

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"-hey. What's your name, do you know where you are -"

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"Angband," snaps the new Bell, and he curls up into a ball. To himself: "Just a dream just a dream only dreaming -"

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"- what are you - doing?"

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Sobbing into his elbow, apparently.

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"Do you want us to keep you asleep - do you want us to kill you -"

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"You can do whatever you want with me."

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"I'm not the person you know, we've never met before, if the door opens on Angband we can't even go fetch the people you probably intend by that -"

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Silence.

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" - how come the books didn't pull up that they had a Melkor and an Angband -"

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"Bar, can you get us books from where he walked in from?"

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She can!

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And it's an Arda. "Well. That explains it. I'm so sorry, Cam -"

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"What are you apologizing to me for?"

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"He's not listening."

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"We've seen a fair few of these."

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"Not the - whatever he just did, that's unusual.

 

 

No two people come out broken the same way but - I don't think he's going to be okay."

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"What's the - flat version like?"

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"I don't know. You heard him say this would be easier if he was on fire -"

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"People don't believe they're out and so they are really reluctant to say what happened, that being something that would provide information about what left an impression," he clarifies. "Injuries significantly more severe than his are standard but perhaps they're more careful with humans -"

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"There haven't been any human 'escapes' or rescues."

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"We know he tortures them, obviously, we know he breeds the orcs, we know that pretty much everyone comes out and asks you to kill them - or they don't, they're fine and then a month later murder forty people in the middle of the night -"

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"...any clues why?"

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"It's possible they're sworn to it - they won't swear they aren't, which makes sense because if you don't think you're really out it's categorically a horrible idea to swear to anything - we think he can tamper with memories, maybe he sets them up to believe it's somehow the right thing to do -"

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"Well. New Bell can't be sworn to it, I imagine. And seems to think catatonia is the right thing to do."

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"It's one way to be useless to your presumed captors, I suppose."

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"I mean... yes, but it seems like it would come less naturally to me than sarcastic commentary."

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"I can't help. People who 'escaped' had only the memories of Angband he wanted them to have anyway."

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"Timothy, do you have any Veritaserum around?"

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"- yeah -"

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"Give him a while to decompress - see if he'll eat or if I have to get nutrition into him - then maybe try that, he'll be able to account for what he says, it's not like mindreading."

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"Okay. Should we get him a room, move him upstairs - new Bell, do you want company -"

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"Might as well. Especially if he's going to yell like that."

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Nod. Float. "Bar, can we get another room -"

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They can. They do.

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They take him upstairs. "If he thinks we're - Angband - he's not gonna answer what we can do for him, do you have any guesses -"

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"I have never been to Angband - and the chip one is different - and I don't have a model of why he'd do this instead of critiquing my fashion sense or something -"

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Nod. "...leave him alone for long enough to see if he'll eat, like you said, and then Veritaserum can at least elicit preferences about supervision and so on - do you want to leave him the means to kill himself -"

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"Yeah. I want to be kind of excruciatingly conservative about assuming he'd want it but if it's there and he goes for it I'm not gonna second-guess him."

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"Okay. If he's just a normal human there're potions that're painless."

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"Several of them? Who develops these things?" Room. Door.

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"Assassins who expect their enemies are checking for specific things but have no way to check in full generality. Mostly. Accio -"

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Cam puts a meal that will still be reasonably tasty if left there for hours and should be comprehensible crossculturally on the room's desk, and makes a label that reads in bright colors Lethal Poison [Optional] to put on the potion.

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Here is the potion. "- if he'd prefer to continue to exist under the conditions 'indestructible magical being' but not otherwise -"

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"If he wouldn't prefer that we can't undo it."

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"I know."

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"Also it'd become a problem in case of the 'murder forty people in the night' thing."

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Shiver. "I hear things go badly when the daeva is smarter than the summoner but 'you with all your faculties' is smarter than 'you being catatonic for some reason'. We'd have to grab him back but we could do that."

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"If he recovers enough to, like, answer yes-or-no questions, revisit it then, I think..." But he adds a note next to the lethal poison that if he can hold off on taking it and hold a conversation they have 'indestructible magical being' on offer.

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"And maybe put on some music or something?"

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"Yeah, good idea." Cam sets up a nice long playlist.

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"And I will be wildly optimistic and suggest instructions on how to contact you as well."

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"I was just going to conjure the plate periodically to see if he'd eaten, but sure." Little notebook, pen, introductory paragraph.

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And they leave.

 

"Wonder if the Killing Curse works on Maiar and Valar."

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"We were wondering this about the Imperius a while ago, weren't we?"

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"Might not have the same answer, since the Imperius works on daeva and Avada Kedavra doesn't. And there are already Melkor containment solutions in place, what I want is a way to kill him. Them."

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"Small you's world has one captive, maybe they'll hold him still and let you try it."

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Nod. 

 

Sigh.

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Wingput.

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"The mes don't want to die, right? And they get back to functional fast enough to gracefully stitch Elf politics back together and I think the massacres later are unrelated. Maybe he'll be okay."

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"...we haven't actually met a you who's been through Angband. They might not disclose suicidal inclinations to their biographers."

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"And they do kill themselves, eventually, and if they're soul-Elves killing themselves doesn't even really help..."

 

Back downstairs.

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"Yep."

Cam periodically conjures the plate. The food on it disappears after a couple minutes.

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"That's promising."

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"Yeah, let's go make sure it hasn't been a week and he's not starving."

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Back upstairs. He grabs Veritaserum.

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New Bell appears to have rolled over under his own power, cleaned his plate, and not touched the little notebook or the optional lethal poison.

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He looks to Cam.

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Cam sits.

"Hey," he says. "You up to talking?"

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"You up to indicating that you're listening in any way?"

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"Are you up to resisting force-feeding of magical truth drugs, 'cause that's next."

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Sigh.

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"There's a dosage that just means he couldn't lie to us, which isn't helpful, there's 'will volunteer true information in response to questions', and there's 'will volunteer all true potentially relevant information in response to questions' -"

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"Second thing, we can try the third thing if he's in any condition to be evasive."

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He measures out two drops. "Is he likely to fight me because it's supply-constrained by having to open Hazel's door again -"

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"...I don't think so but we're only doing this at all because I'm confused about how he ticks."

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"I'm going to stun you and then wake you up," he tells new Bell, "Stupefy."

Potion.

"Enervate."

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"- Timothy how long does it last -"

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"Hour or so, why?"

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"Wanted to know how aggressively to prioritize. What's your name?"

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"- Akibel Mowar," and now he's scared.

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"I'm Timothy, this is Cam, if we were working for Melkor he'd have won a long time ago, Cam's an alternate universe version of you and we're trying to figure out what you're doing and why."

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"...what is it that's easier if you're on fire."

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"Stopping thinking."

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"...why do you do that?"

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"- because he can read memories -" Akibel is shaking, now.

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"- oh."

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"Makes sense now?"

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"Yes. Akibel, having demonstrated that we have the ability to get you talking whether you like it or not will you talk to us if we let the potion wear off?"

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"Yeah."

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"- do you want me to get an antidote -"

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"Are you going to be informative?"

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"I'll answer like I do when you stage a rescue first."

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"How's that?"

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"I'll tell you what you already know."

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"That's fine to start out, at least, assuming you mean you'll tell us what Melkor already knows. - means we should ask advance-directive-y things before the potion wears off, though -"

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"Yeah. Are you suicidally inclined?"

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"Sometimes."

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"...are these right now the sort of conditions under which you are suicidally inclined."

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"Yes."

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"Skipped the potion because?"

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"Suicide in hallucinations just ends them."

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"Can you ever identify things as nonhallucinations in any way?"

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"Dreams that fit right."

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"What is the deal with your dreams?"

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"I'm reincarnated and get my past life back that way and any memories you delete."

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"...If you could be sure that what you are currently experiencing was not a hallucination, would you want to kill yourself?"

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"No."

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"Would you want to become an immortal indestructible but potentially mentally vulnerable magical creature."

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"Probably not."

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"If you could be sure this was not a hallucination what would you want us to do - in terms of company, in terms of enlisting the help of the competent Valar, in terms of magic we have or might turn up -"

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"...Something intelligent given whatever constraints you have."

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"Try to roll you back to before Angband, yes or no. Keep you in a coma until we can kill your Melkor and access your - Aydanci? is it? - yes or no. I have a magic mind-control spell that I probably couldn't manage to cast on a younger traumatized Cam no matter what but would you want it demonstrated yes or no -"

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- Akibel mumbles confusedly.

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"I don't think he can produce answers he believes reliably true on this little information - who's Aydanci, is he or she authorized to make decisions on your behalf -"

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"My husband. Yes."

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"How'd you two end up in an Arda?"

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"A magic snake ate me and then the Valar made a portal and I went and got him."

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"Where would we be getting your husband from?"

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"Wherever they fell back to after I was captured."

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"How long had the war been going on when you were captured?"

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"23 years."

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"Melkor must know that, we can save it. Are there memory charm reversals that might apply?"

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"Complicated as hell and we'd have to go to St. Mungos but conceivably, yes."

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"Akibel -"

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"Kib."

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"Kib! Conditioning on the hypothesis that I'm an alternate universe version of you, that those are a thing, that this is an alternate universe Maitimo, that there are lots of worlds with all kinds of resources available, and that we can access all published written works from your home world and your Arda, what do you think we ought to know."

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"- he got my Maitimo first. But Findekáno got him out again. I might reincarnate again if I died. My past life was named Alymbel Mahri and invented storks anonymously. Waking me up when I have nightmares doesn't help in the long run. I'm still missing a lot of memories. Doing the thing I'm doing is really really boring and I hate it."

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" - Cam, I don't know if the competent Valar would take alt consent to fix the memories but I bet they could, if Melkor can -"

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"Seems like it'd save him some nightmares - right, Kib -?"

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"I think I never dream anything I remembered when I went to sleep."

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"Conditioning on the hypothesis that among our resources are friendly Valar do you want your memories all put back?"

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"Yes."

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"Is keeping you unconscious better or worse than letting you keep doing the thing you're doing?"

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"- depends on if I dream -"

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"Is dreaming preferable conditioning on the hypothesis that we are friendly."

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"No."

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"And if we can put everything back and doing so prevents the dreams?"

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"Preferable."

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"And if we can keep you awake indefinitely?"

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"No - please -"

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"Because then you can't confirm anything -"

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"Yeah."

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"If you're doing - the not-thinking thing - do you want company, do you want entertainment..."

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"People are nice until they start hurting me - music's nice -"

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"Are there things that hurt you that we wouldn't expect to hurt you, or hurt you much worse than they'd hurt you-before-Angband -"

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"I - don't remember -"

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" - Cam can you think how to phrase it, this is something I would be evasive about in his position but which we do need to know -"

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"...What was your state of information immediately before you said 'I think something's wrong with me'."

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"The last thing I remembered I was back in Valinor with Maitimo and - then there's - weird memories of a couple weeks of hearing that there were humans in Endorë and us deciding to go meet them and - the memories were wrong, I checked my notes and they were there but didn't make any sense - and I went looking for Aydanci to have him take over teaching the humans servantmaking and before I found him I was in that other place and suddenly everything hurt and I was so tired -"

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"What'd you dream about this past sleep?"

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"Torture and then an Aly dream and then a hallucination that went on a couple subjective weeks and it had dreams within dreams when I imagined I slept and more torture."

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"So you don't remember most of it and might have phobias you don't know about or something -?"

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"Maybe."

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"I would kind of like to know if the people we have up here are causing him horrible torment by picking at their nails exactly the way Melkor does it or something but I can't think of any way to learn things like that without dosing him occasionally to ask and that doesn't seem - warranted -"

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"Do you think you are likely to have phobias like that."

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"No."

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"Are there people you would not want to have as visitors who alternate universe versions of you might find perfectly good company -"

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"Not if they don't hurt me it's okay until they hurt me -"

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"This right now is okay?"

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"This is terrifying but not because you look like me and like Maitimo."

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"- that's all I have that needs Veritaserum, do you -"

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"Did this knock you out of your not thinking thing."

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"Yes."

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"Are you going to redo it -"

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"Yes."

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"If you were permanently out of Angband and no one was reading your mind, would you want us to let you do that? Alternatives include continuing to dose you and have people talking with you so you can't redo it or checking interactions with various other forms of mind-affecting magic available to us."

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"It only does its job if you can't stop me."

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"But this doesn't count as demonstrating ability to stop you?"

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"Not quite."

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"- Cam do you want to keep him dosed while we figure out what to do- do you think the higher dose would qualify as proof -"

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"Might. Worth a shot but - is there a way to cut him off if we phrase a question badly -?"

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"Asking another one, or I can make us unable to hear him -"

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"Kib, if this potion you're on got way more itself would you cut it out with the not thinking?"

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"Probably."

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"Should I knock you out again or will you have a second dose?"

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"I can't stop you!"

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"Yes, but would you try."

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"No."

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He measures out three drops. He passes Kib a spoon.

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Kib takes it, trembling.

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"How does servantmaking work?"

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- and Kib goes on a long ramble about the five kinds of servants and the fine differences between the three programming paradigms.

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"What are the applications of most interest to Melkor?"

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"I don't remember anything current to the war -" He speculates wildly. Mass production, giant golems, pet spies -

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"We can probably safely teach your original world summoning, they've got plenty to trade daeva - the reincarnation thing isn't universal, is it -"

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"It's only me and Aydanci that I know of but I might not remember if we ever figured anything else out."

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"Are you satisfied that we can extract arbitrary information from you?"

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"No but I wish I were because I'm convinced you could make me miserable in the course of proving it."

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"What do I need to ask to prove it?"

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"I don't know if this thing can make me do more than talk - if you made me do any substantive research I guess but I don't remember anything current -"

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"You don't have a way to avoid doing substantive research other than ceasing to think?"

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"That's not what ceasing to think is for, ceasing to think is to stop you from having my thoughts, but you could prove that I can't limit your access even by trying not to think if you cause me to do substantive research - you can get idle thoughts just by rolling me back -"

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He looks at Cam. "I don't actually know if the potion does that - I might have to at least know what I was walking him through - Imperius can but Bells throw it off and also yeah no -"

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"...I'm not actually sure we couldn't crack that without magic or demanding research. If some alternate universe yous hovered and narrated what we thought you might be thinking do you think that'd make you cut it out?"

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"Maybe."

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"Should I ask Miranda and Ambela up -"

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"If I'm right it'll work when the dose is worn off and be less scary then but - they should be ready to catch him then before he goes under again."

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"Okay. - do you need more information or anything to make it work -"

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"Inconveniently I need information about his personal life."

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And so Kib winds up mumbling about his childhood and his reincarnation and how he met his boyfriends and how great his husband is and how traumatized his Maitimo (though he remembers only fragments of the last). Cam cuts him off when he gets irrelevantly or inappropriately detailed.

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It would be adorable if it weren't all completely horrible. And -

 

can you ask Ambela and Miranda to come up to room 700022, please -

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Timothy and Cam would like you to come to room 700022, he tells them. He is playing with his car in the room with the circle for the lunar-arcology-destroyer because he thinks daeva murderers are interesting and he wants to meet some more of them.

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Did he say why?

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Coming.

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He asks, and conveys, you have an alt who Milliways scooped out of Angband and Cam thinks it'll help him to meet the other yous.

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On my way.

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Zoom zoom. 

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The girl Bells arrive and Ambela knocks.

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"Hi. Thank you for coming - he's under a truth potion but it should wear off any minute, don't ask him questions until then -"

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"People from our Utumno are always rolled back - there were too many forks who'd been in too long -"

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"This one was in a Flat Angband. Has a husband of no obvious template from his own world and is also simultaneously dating his Maitimo and Findekáno, who he picked up while still reaccumulating memories from his first life, from which he reincarated, and at the time he didn't remember he was married. He's missing a lot of memories from after that - doesn't know when his Melkor broke parole or why his husband reincarnated or how his Maitimo got captured or anything -" He catches the girls up.

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"You willing to hang on for a little while after the potion ends, Kib?"

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"You can have a minute."

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"Thank you." And he sits back and watches Cam unhappily and waits a few more minutes.

 

"And - now, should be gone. Kib, do either of them look like Aly -"

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Long pause. Headshake.

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"You're clear," he tells the Bells.

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"I'm not sure I'm as much use -"

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"Then hang back till you have input. - Timothy, he doesn't really know you -"

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"Do you want me to leave? Or not listen?"

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"Leaving's marginally more verifiable in retrospect when he puts his mind in better order -" Cam kisses him and shoos him.

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He shoos.

 

And goes and looks for published works on Angband.

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For some reason there are not many firsthand accounts.

Not many isn't, in four hundred million Ardas, zero.

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Any that match Kib's up to Kib's point of entry?

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Bar finds Kib's Arda to have been standard up until his arrival by her metrics.

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So some from those.

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Voila.

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Reading.

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The Bells come downstairs.

Kib looks really annoyed, but alert.

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"Hi!"

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"He's convinced that outright ceasing to think is not helping but he still thinks he's in Angband because he didn't even get a rescue sequence, and being surly is more comfortable than being scared. He's not going to be very good company for a while - we're introverts, he'll be okay alone."

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"Okay. If he prefers not having company, that is, if it's just that he thinks we're all Melkor I'd sooner tolerate that - his Maitimo wouldn't leave him alone -"

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"I bet he gets real - cuddly and cooperative, when he's been given a rescue hallucination - but 'hallucination of something unrelated cuts out with no memory restoration in the middle of the bar' isn't one of those. But no, not having company is not better-for-him."

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"Then we'll visit. We don't need cuddly."

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Was he involved with -

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Yeah. The story's honestly super cute but we forced it out of him so I'm not repeating it.

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Kib plops down by the fireplace and stares at it.

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"You should read something. If we're Melkor coming up with plausible books for you probably takes more of our time and energy than coming up with a convincing fireplace. Human or Elf literature? Ambela's Elves all write relentless tragedies, if you find normal Elf content a bit too goody-goody."

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"I'm waiting to pick a new strategy after you give my memories back or come up with an excuse not to do that after all. Maybe you're really good at propaganda and just save it for special occasions."

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"Mirelóte, can Lórien -"

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"I'm not sure about mine but it should be within a flat one's skillset."

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Nod.

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He starts singing softly.

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Is silent weeping an improvement?

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No, not really. "Should we not -"

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"Oh, depends, what are you going for here?"

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"An interaction that doesn't involve anxiously clinging to you in the infirmary while the apologetic healer tells me that you're breaking some stupid bar rule by not of all things wearing clothes?"

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"Thanks for that, I guess, if it makes sense to thank you for there being a framing story in which I don't spend a few months bedridden recovering."

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"You'd want to thank Tse Lux, they give up their own immune system for healing powers or something - not, like, as a voluntary choice, they're selected for it at four - does my local alt spend a few months bedridden recovering? Does he in fact recover, I peeked at his notes but they're - less than revealing, I'd act fine either way -"

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"What in the name of the fucking Pineapple Islands is the point of asking me this before you put my memories back."

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"Oh, I'm not counting on the Valar to be competent, that's the people whose Valar didn't try to control their populace with mass mindcontrol."

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"Oh! You have backstory!"

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"Have I annoyed you sufficiently that I can sing without reducing you to tears or are those not on the same axis somehow?"

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"You still sound like him."

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"We can go outside, it's fine."

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"Should anyway, if they're getting Valar -"

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"Yeah." Lean.

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They go outside.

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"Do I too, or is it an Elf thing."

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"If you sing I probably won't cry."

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"I sang a bit before we came down, it was all right."

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"I'll tell the other Elf mes, then, that they shouldn't -"

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"And Findekáno."

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"The one you met is the only one here so far but if we run into any more I will tell them also."

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"Great."

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"If interactions with people who don't look like and aren't alts of anyone you know are preferable there're Singularity Elves outside. Or you could sit in on daeva interviewing."

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"I'll take that under advisement."

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Sigh. 

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Sitting. Staring.

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After an hour or so a car will come zooming into the room, and then a small child will come toddling after it.

 

"Hi," he says to Kib. "I'm the Maitimo called Mingling because there are a lot of us."

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That's a thing.

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"His name is Kib," Timothy volunteers from over where he is reading.

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"Thank you!" he says, and retrieves the car which has run itself into the wall. "You look like Cam but not a demon," he tells Kib.

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"Yeah."

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"...are you okay?"

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"No."

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"Do you want the car?" He offers it. "It's named Cadillac."

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"I'm not sure what I'd do with it."

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"I mostly bother one of the wizards or witches to enchant it to run around and then I chase it around but I guess that's the sort of thing that grownups wouldn't find very interesting. Sometimes interesting things have happened though, one of the murderdemons came through and I got to meet him! He didn't say his name so I peeked at the circle."

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"Mingling, we haven't caught Kib up on how everything here is going yet because he's got a lot to process already."

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"Oh, okay. I don't know what to show him other than the car - unless the surprise present is ready, Timothy, is the surprise present ready?"

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"No and you could've easily osanwëd that."

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"...surprise present?"

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"The contents can continue to be a surprise even if the existence of a surprise is now not a surprise!"

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"But who is it a surprise for?"

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"Mostly Cam because Timothy likes him but everyone will like it."

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"Would you like a dragon more than a car, they can also enchant little dragons to fly around. There are a bunch of them and no one has named them at all yet."

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"...still not sure what I'd do with it."

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"Stop it from breathing fire on things that shouldn't be on fire? ...that's not a very good argument, is it."

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Snort.

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"Most sad people are happier if you give them presents but I don't know what good presents for grownups are I guess. Except Timothy's surprise present but I can't get you that even if Timothy weren't already getting it for Cam."

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"I'm not really in present-appreciating condition."

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"I'm sorry. Are you in hugging condition?"

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"All right."

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It takes some doing for him to get up on the couch.

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- Kib almost helps him but ultimately doesn't.

When hugged he hugs back.

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Hug. "When I met Cam he was so so scared and sad but now he's not very scared and sad so maybe that will happen to you also."

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"I don't know what his backstory is but it's probably different."

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"All the mes except Timothy had pretty much the same lives at the start but all the yous are different," he nods. "But still lots and lots of magic and problems to solve and power to solve them helps."

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...hug again?

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Sure.

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"'mm sorry."

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"You have nothing to be sorry for," Mirelótë says.

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"Do too. There are people who are sad and I haven't fixed it yet, I don't want to not be sorry about that."

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"You should probably get out of the habit. There's a lot of people, and wouldn't it be tedious to be sorry all of the time?"

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"...no?"

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"Well, it's ultimately up to you, but do consider it."

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"What did your me end up doing?"

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"You should probably ask him that."

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Hey, what did you do about the thing where if anyone anywhere is sad it's our personal responsibility?

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Some people don't want you to be responsible for them, it feels too - intimate. If someone takes their problem to you, then it's yours, and you want to be everywhere and be known for being good at problems so people will take them to you. But until they do, it's not yours and it's not okay to take things that aren't yours.

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He droops.

"Okay. Sorry, Kib."

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Sigh.

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He scoots off the couch. He flops on the floor with his car.

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"Do you want to open the door for me so I can ask Lórien a question?"

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"Okay!"

 

Door.

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And she leans in and asks her Lórien if he or failing that his alt can restore memories removed by a flat Melkor, because a new Bell has come in out of Angband.

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Oh no, I'm so sorry. I don't know how to do that, don't know if I could learn, I will ask the local one -

 

And a minute later - yes, he can, but your alt would need to come here, does that work?

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How far in? He's not very participatory at the moment.

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To Lórien, ideally, he has most of his power - set up there? We could come and get him if that helps...

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Cam could give him a little shuttle, maybe, how far in what direction from the door -?

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And directions are given.

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And eventually Kib is sent on a shuttle to the garden, muttering to himself about bewildering rigmarole.

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And there are two of Lórien, one not doing the staticky I-am-a-god thing at all and the other one only doing it a little bit, definitely less than Kib remembers from Valar.

Hello, says little-bit-staticky. You want memories that were removed or tampered with restored?

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"Yeah."

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What would you like done about ones that were falsely implanted?

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"Leave 'em. Put 'em back, if you can, or I'll just dream them."

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All right. It will take a few hours, do you want to get comfortable?

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He sighs and sits in the grass.

It goes all fluffy.

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And his memories come back into place. Several decades of the war and then several subjective decades of torture, just like that.

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Shiver.

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Is there anything else I can do for you?

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"I - don't think so -"

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All right. You can stay here as long as you would like.

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He curls up in the fluffy grass.

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They leave him to that.

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He sleeps. He wakes up.

 

He gets back in the shuttle and it takes him back to the door.

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In the bar is an Elf he'll recognize and a couple which he won't, and a human Macalaurë snuggling with a demon.

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"I have no idea where this is going."

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"Memories all back?"

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"Not from my past life, but this one I don't think I'm missing time."

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"Do you want an explanation now, or still no, it can wait."

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"I don't think I'm going to guess, the setup is kind of all over the place."

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"...is that a yes?"

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"Go for it."

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"Okay. This place is called Milliways. There are - a very very large finite number - of worlds, and Milliways is an interdimensional bar. Every once in a while the door will open on a world and people can walk in. The mechanism selecting the world or the people isn't known. The bar is sentient and can answer questions you have about this. She also gives good drink recommendations. 

Cam was born on a world populated by humans and technologically more advanced than yours, but not known to have any magic. When he was seventeen he discovered a book with instructions on summoning daeva - demons, angels, and fairies - from neighboring worlds. You draw a circle with instructions within it constraining the behavior of the daeva you fetch, and then you trade with them. He went public with this information, taught the whole world how to do it. Someone murdered him. He woke up in the realm of demons, as a demon. Demons can make arbitrary material objects. Anyone who has summoned a daeva and dies will become a daeva, so we're spreading it to various worlds as mortality protection - in most worlds humans don't get an afterlife. 

A hundred fifty years after Cam became a demon he was accidentally summoned by a child on a ship in a place called Araman, where the Noldor were departing Valinor to go fight Melkor. Their Arda was different than the one you're familiar with - about a hundred times the population, and Valinor and Endorë were separate worlds, orbiting different stars - do you know any astronomy -"

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"Not especially."

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"Okay. Most worlds - including the one you are from - are spherical. Their weight holds them together; down is in. Stars are the same thing, only even bigger, and on fire. The Arda you are from is flat because the Valar didn't know the relevant physics and didn't know how to make a spherical one. The Arda Cam landed in had marginally more competent Valar or something and their Valinor did not have any magic trees but was instead lit by two suns. Their Endorë was a separate world, in its own star system. Stars are very far away from each other; the trip between Valinor and Endorë was so far that it would take light twenty-five years to reach, and take people longer since we can go close to as fast as light but not quite. Then Fëanáro invented a way to cheat, and now the trip takes five days, but the ships that let you travel in five days were scarce. They asked Cam to make them a bunch more of them."

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"I feel like this is elaborate enough to have deserved a better introductory paragraph."

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"Is it elaborate enough that you can believe we are invested in it and are not going to ruin it to suddenly torture you?"

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"That definitely sounds like a safe assumption I should advertise having made!"

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Sigh. "So imagine you're a demon who is summoned to an Arda and asked to make this outgoing army a fleet of starships, what do you do?"

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"...try to see if they're doing something useful or just marauding randos with poor logistics?"

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"Yeah. So Cam agrees to make and administer a secret refugee planet, and to do more looking into their reasons for going to war. They recommend him all their published materials about the Enemy, which would be hard to have designed in a way that let you deceive a demon - but he doesn't want to rule it out, because this world has a lot of technology that his native world doesn't. In particular, Elves in this world don't have immortal souls, like the kind of Elves you're used to - instead, they write the contents of their brains to little metal chips in their heads, and Mandos has backup copies of the chips from which he can resurrect them. So he makes the refugee planet, relocates some refugees, and lands with them on Endorë to try to determine if they're telling the truth about the war.

He discovers that the Enemy is in fact horrible. One of his favorite hobbies is killing people in ways that leave their chips intact, and then - running them - off the chips, very fast, a thousand or ten thousand years in a year of real time, and he has millions of prisoners. And he offers Cam a deal. The deal is that Cam destroys Valinor - which is easy to do with demon powers - and kills everyone on it including the Valar, and in exchange the Enemy will let Cam evacuate Endorë."

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"To, what, be chased forever?"

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"Would have been very hard to find them, space is big. Cam turns him down. Then the me is among a hundred million people who get captured when the Enemy deploys a - disease - that kills everyone silently in their sleep so he can come by and get the chips from them. And the Findekáno figures out how to resurrect people without Mandos helping. 

And Cam figures it might be worth it to take Melkor up on the deal. He tells him he'll do it in exchange for an oath - he found a way to verify - never to hurt anyone ever again, or let anyone under his command do that, to stop all the torture and all the war. Melkor agrees."

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"Mm-hm."

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"So Cam does it. And then he makes them a new planet and starts resurrecting everyone he can, fifty-four million of them, and when he's halfway through it he runs into a Milliways door."

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"What a delightful stroke of luck."

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"Luck would've been getting it six months sooner."

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Nod.

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"Anyway. The door had also recently opened on another planet full of humans, some small fraction of which have the ability to perform magic. That world, Hazel,'s tech level is comparable to yours but without servantmaking, and the magic-users government is pretty horrible, the me and the you were planning to take over the world because it needed it. So Timothy meets Cam, they exchange notes, Cam can help Timothy's world a lot with technology and also he teaches him to summon and they learn in an accident that summoners from anywhere still daevafy, and he starts planning a rollout of summoning in his world to stop all its humans from dying. This is complicated by the fact that summoning is very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and Hazel's population is mostly illiterate."

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"My world's population is not mostly illiterate."

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"Yeah, you seem to have gotten a lot of mileage off servantmaking in terms of quality of life advances that human populations mostly don't achieve until they industrialize."

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"Servants don't teach kids to read, creche minders do."

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"Yes but you are far enough above subsistence labor that they can afford to do that."

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"Seems inefficient to teach kids anything if they can't read. Whatever."

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"I think they mostly farm and serve as servants to richer humans and raise their accidental children and that's about it?"

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"Who, the Hazel people?"

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"Yes. My world doesn't have any humans."

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"Okay."

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"Anyway. They're working on this when Mingling - the me who is seven - walks in. And frightens Cam pretty badly, because chip Elves can't osanwë at him and the little me read his mind when he was thinking about the destroyed planet and then both of them freaked out quite badly."

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"Blatant plagiarism, minus ten points."

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"That's in a hallucination?"

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"It's in when I landed in Valinor."

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"It seems to be somewhat predictably a consequence of the first contact between Bells and soul Elves, given their norms about mindreading."

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"Mmhm."

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"Anyway. Cam is debating whether to go ask Mingling's Valar for help restoring the dead Maiar and Valar and everyone's dead babies and the magic no-decay effect and so on. Timothy's worried that they will execute Cam, Cam is also worried about this but not exactly being deterred, Timothy suggests that since there are apparently lots of Ardas they instead read through Bar's published records of all of the Ardas in the multiverse and find the one with the most competent Valar and ask that set for help. Of course, the only way of getting doors available to us is for someone from the relevant world to open the door, but they can fork chip Elves.

So they look in chip Ardas for the most competent Valar they can find, and they find my world, and they fork me so I can open the door and put them in touch with my Valar."

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"Welcome to the world."

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"And my Valar are competent and talk with Cam and agree to help but they want to know why their alts are so incompetent - the answer is because our Arda has a Bell, and she spent five thousand years very patiently explaining to them how to deity properly -"

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Snort.

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"So now they're bringing Mingling's set up to competence for practice before they go try on Singularity's set, which will be - more complicated in some respects, because they were murdered and we're not sure how they'll feel about that. And meanwhile another soul Maitimo walked in, that's Midnight, he was in here when you arrived, the war's been going on for four hundred years in his world. And then you walked in. Questions?"

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"Am I supposed to be anywhere or doing anything in particular or should I go ahead and find it really suspicious if that turns out to mysteriously happen?"

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"You are not supposed to be anywhere or doing anything and you are welcome to find it really suspicious if that turns out to happen."

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"There's yous and there's Findekános. No Aydancis."

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"Might be some, we don't have a way to check. If we knew enough about your husband we could hazard a guess as to whether we knew him but secondhand I wouldn't be terribly confident in that guess."

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Nod.

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"Once they figure out how to take your Melkor down safely then we'll go get you yours."

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"I'm not at my spousal best. You open with Findekáno on a pterodactyl if you want me like that."

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"...huh?"

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"That's how my Maitimo got rescued, Findekáno rode in on a pterodactyl and cut him off the wall and brought him home, that's the lazy plagiarism-minus-ten-points way to get me cooperative just in case. There was also the time with the poorly explained cutting-edge magic engineering and the one with the mountain golem."

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"So if we go get your husband you won't be cooperative-just-in-case and we should...not?"

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"Obviously you can produce whoever the fuck you want, you could populate the hallucination entirely with Aydancis, you could present me with a toddler and tell me he'd fucking reincarnated again -"

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"We're not going to do that. Milliways pauses time in all the worlds who have a resident here. If you think you need ten thousand years before you want to see him - or your Maitimo and your Findekáno - again, they won't grieve you for even a single second more. They will not make an appearance until you're ready, and they won't be hurting for your absence in the meantime, so if you don't want to see them that's fine."

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"Ooh, lemme see if I can guess the plot twist - I'm not from my Arda, it's careening off in real time?"

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" - shouldn't work that way, no, Cam's Arda stopped when he found the door and he'd been there for even less time than you'd been in yours. Even if it does it'd just mean we ask the Sanity Valar to tackle yours right away, it wouldn't mean you had to do anything..."

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"Until it did."

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"Sure, okay, if it does then you can be very suspicious. Is the me like this?"

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"Like what?"

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"Doesn't think he's out -"

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"He pretends, for most people."

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"They kill themselves eventually, in the standard timeline."

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"Doesn't help in or out, not for an Elf -"

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"Yeah. I don't really understand."

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"Does get you out of whatever hallucination usually."

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"So maybe he just - thinks it's a particularly bad one?"

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"Sure, maybe that'd do it."

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"Can I recommend you books or movies or something?"

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"Movies?"

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"Like plays but we found a way to capture them so you can watch them later."

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"Sure. Why not."

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He recommends him a bunch of movies. "They're Sanity so mostly tragic."

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"What a clear inference that is."

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"Oh, uh, we asked our Eru the fuck his deal was and he said 'oh, I just find heartbreak really narratively compelling thus Melkor' and we talked him into crippling himself enough he could just, like, enjoy sad books. So now he does that."

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"Ah-huh."

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"I can ask Cam to recommend human movies, you might like them better."

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"Okay."

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He pulls up a computer and messages Cam. 

Movie recommendations for Kib? He is back and caught as up to speed as he seems to have any interest in.

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Cam comes up with a list.

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"Do you have a computer yet, Kib?"

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"What's that?"

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"Future technology that plays movies and other things."

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"Well, no, I don't have one."

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Cam - Can you get him a computer, or should I just buy one off Bar for the time being?

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I'll come down and get him one and the movies too.

He's down presently. He pauses, and asks Bar, "Can you by any chance tell if he's enough like the sort of human I'm accustomed to to take a chiplocked one?"

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I can, and he is.

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"Hey Kib conditioning on the features of this scenario being as they present themselves do you want a futuristic device you control with your mind?"

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"Sounds lovely."

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And now he has a chiplocked computer. "I put all your notes on it but you'll have to teach it your alphabet for them to be searchable or editable. It does have Quenya, if you did any of them in Quenya."

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"Mmhm."

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"Are you going to come down for food, because checking in on you regularly is complicated by the time irregularities."

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"If I don't eat occasionally I assume I will get hungry and then either heroic measures to save me will keep me in-scenario or I will starve and find myself in a new one."

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"You will die and time'll start passing in your world again and we'll have no way to access it."

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"Sure."

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"Maybe we should ask the Valar if there's any way they can safely scoop someone else up, so it's not all to him," he says to Cam.

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"Yeah. In case it was unclear that does mean he'll eat on his own though."

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"Which is great but I'd rather have something else anyway - in case of another summoning accident or something or -"

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"His Valar can make portals, the other Flat ones might be able to too."

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"That'd be really good, we can get to as many worlds as we need that way - maybe have all the portals from a planet in Sanity so our Valar can check travel -"

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"Yeah. We could ask them now. I'm not sure talking to Kib's husband about him wouldn't be better in some ways than alt consent if anything new comes up..."

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"He was being ambiguous about whether he wanted his husband here. But yeah."

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"We can talk to him without having Kib see him."

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"Yeah."

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Kib is training his computer and to all appearances ignoring them.

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"Or he might want his husband and be failing to indicate that for some reason? I suppose the husband might know."

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"Or his Maitimo, who presumably would have insight into the condition, we don't have any other Angband survivors around."

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"Yeah."

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Where's the nearest Flat Elf and Ambela? Cam fetches them.

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They are fetched.

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Ambela leans in, mentions the portals and that they might want access to Kib's world without opening a door into Angband.

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The flat Valar can do portals, and are happy to, though they would need something from the world in question to portal to.

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...Kib doesn't count, does he.

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Kib is not from the Arda, as they understand it?

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Right. Inconveniently he wasn't even wearing clothes from it when he stumbled in. Can they triangulate any other way? He would have been eating food from the Arda for decades, he might be mostly made of matter from there by now?

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They can try?

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Kib returns to Lórien on the shuttle.

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They try! They get a portal!

 

It's to Kib's world of origin.

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There are Elves in Kib's world, though -

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Oh, yes, we can go ask them for a portal to the Arda!

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Kib can tell them where to expect Elves to be in his world.

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They will go and find some.

 

They come back a little while later to say that, yes, they can get a portal to the Arda that way. It's closed for the time being because they don't want time passing in that Arda until they can handle its Melkor, but Kib does not need to worry about being the only route to his world.

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So he goes back to Milliways. He gets lunch. He puts on a movie.

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No one bothers him. 

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It's a cozy scenario like that.

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He goes to ask Security if they'd like a portal between their world and Sanity.

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Maybe? What would that entail?

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"It'd be possible to go back and forth between them without involving Milliways, we could trade and things."

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"What's the catch?"

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"Uh, usually trade makes both parties better off but not universally so, there's some literature on it, is that the kind of catch you mean?"

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"I mean is somebody going to want to conquer us or dismantle temple-guilds or anything -"

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"No. I don't know that we glowingly approve of temple-guilds but there are octillions more important problems and maybe we can figure out a way to help you cheat the tradeoffs somehow  - and anyway if we had a reputation for meddling with people such that they didn't want portals to our world then we'd be really messing up - "

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"So you think everybody'll be glad it's there?"

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"I cannot promise literally everybody, if there's some place so badly run that all its citizens will leave given the choice and that will be really upset when they all leave, but I think most people will be glad it's there and we'll work hard to fix problems if they come up."

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"How do you set up... portal trade...?"

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"Likely we will send a delegation like your nations do when they are setting up trade with their neighbors, and we will agree on how much money to pay your governments for selling our goods, and what to do if our people are accused of crimes while in your world or vice versa, and what to do if people want to immigrate in either direction. I am sure more things will come up but I don't anticipate specific ones."

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The whitemage is concerned that if their government is unhappy about the portal they will personally be in trouble.

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"You have demonstrated really impressive commitment to the wellbeing of your people and that would be a shortsighted government indeed. But, well, we could neglect to mention how we got the capabilities for the portal or find someone who does not mind claiming responsibility or offer you asylum if you'd like that..."

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"We have families, and we're committed to our Temple-Guild," the whitemage says, "we can't go asylum somewhere."

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"Is there something we can offer your government such that they'd definitely be pleased about a portal?"

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"Don't know, I've never directly interacted with them."

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"I expect there's something, we have a lot of things that greatly enhance quality of life which you don't have yet. We could agree to close it if they're displeased?"

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"I guess. And not saying it was us is good too."

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"Definitely."

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"Okay then."

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So he lets Ambela know that when the flat Arda Valar can be spared to do more portalmaking more portalmaking would be appreciated.

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Which Ambela passes along.

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The flat Valar are happy to make portals. They did that even before they understood incarnates so well, they observe. Where does Sanity want the portal?

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Sanity is thinking it'd be best to have the portal to some planet that is not Valinor or Endorë, as buffer if problems arise. He finds Cam. "I think we should set up a planet for portals to other worlds."

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"I could terraform you a planet. Making one from nothing takes longer, much more so if you need a new star too."

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"No, we've done an astronomical survey, I can point you at a planet. You don't mind?"

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"I have always wanted to terraform Mars. This is not Mars but still."

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"It's all yours."

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"I'll need to revise my Mars plans for planet size, orbit, and magnetic behavior, and if you want fauna with brains you'll have to source them elsewhere."

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"I can give you a selection of planets, if that helps, and my society has philosophical objections to fauna with brains if the Valar aren't making sure their lives won't suck so that's no loss to start out."

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"Right, but it does affect what plants I can put in if there won't be, like, bat pollinators, herbivore population control, etcetera."

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"I will ask the Valar how much oversight it'd take to give a planet supervised animals."

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"Or just help me out with a plant-and-bugs ecology."

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"I guess we're likelier to eventually be stretched for Valar. Didn't early stages of evolved planets have a plant-and-bugs ecology?"

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"Sure, but I was envisioning more of a resident-optimized set of plants than that, edible stuff..."

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"I'm not even sure the stuff edible to Elves is edible to humans - I guess we could start there, look what in the Valian ecology is human-compatible -"

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"I filled up the cargo holds of a bunch of lightleapers with food and it all turned out Elf-friendly."

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"Yes but - we seem like a strict improvement on humans, I'm not sure the fact Elves can eat human food implies the reverse, especially when the Valar got their existing plants by just twiddling until things were Elf-edible."

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"My Mars plans are designed for human residents. I'd be removing things that depended on imported hummingbirds, not adding random extras."

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"That should work, then." Tap tap tap - "there, dozens of planets for you to choose from."

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Wag wag. "Thanks."

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"My pleasure."

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And Cam goes off to look at planets.

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And the Maitimos consult on Kib-socialization (people should not be alone! but conversations with someone who thinks you are Melkor are unpleasant and hard to sustain for very long) and decide to go bother Kib in pairs, so conversation can happen in front of him without his needing to participate. 

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He will go bother Kib!

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He thinks it is entertaining that these are the kind of priorities versions of him have when nothing has ever gone wrong in their lives. He does not say this. He joins his alt for Kib-bothering.

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Kib does pause his movie when they show up.

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He blinks at the screen. "How -"

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" - I don't actually know, not in any detail. Uh, you can send pictures by pretending they are made of numbers, and if you get good at that you can fit a lot of pictures into a very small space."

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"It's sort of like shine grids."

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"We don't have those either. It's clever, though."

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"I don't get a lot out of fictional movies, I can usually tell the actors are acting."

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"That explains why it was always Findekáno who took me to plays."

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"That and less to lose."

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" - well, we didn't have that problem and I still mostly go to plays to see people I know, not for the story, so -"

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"Your Valar didn't start out better - she'd already gotten to that?"

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"I mean, I wouldn't have openly dated someone back when I came of age, but even by 1370 it was safe enough, yeah -"

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"It's interesting that the premise here is that I am in fact so awesome that given an Elf lifetime I could fix a set of Valar."

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"They were always well-intentioned, just - missing some skillsets."

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Shiver.

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"They called everybody together for a stupid fucking festival so there were no Ainur on hand and nobody near enough to sing healing competently when Aydanci died, what skill deficit is that?"

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"Treating the problem as 'people are unhappy' instead of handling what they're upset about, assuming Valinor's safer than it was - you could ask Ambela to break down how she did it, I'm sure she'd be happy to tell you -"

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"Mmhm."

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"If it were me I think I'd go talk to a couple thousand people, on the grounds Melkor can't do that many effectively, I don't know what the equivalent is for you..."

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"Isn't really one. And talking to people never convinced my Maitimo, either."

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"They'd all have been people he knew before, right?"

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"Most of 'em, not all."

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"Would he have told you if he thought it was likely real?"

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"No. But the implied things it makes sense to do don't change much with exact probability."

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Nod.

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"How many hallucinations does this make?"

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"Am I supposed to count this as the same one I was in when suddenly a bar?"

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"Either way, I guess."

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Kib counts on his fingers. It takes him a while. "...hundred and sixteen, most of which don't involve 'yes you were in Angband but now you aren't any more' at any level of commitment to realism. They're short. Can only keep me awake so long in real time and I dream if I sleep in a hallucination, too, after the first few they all start with 'hey guess what Macalaurë has a new sleep-skipping song!' and then if I'm busy enough it'll take a couple weeks before I start missing the Aly dreams, or feeling under the weather enough that I try sleeping it off..."

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He flinches.

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"What?"

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"I don't know what I was expecting but that's more than I was expecting."

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"That's not even counting separately all the ones that rewind a dozen times in a hundred places because nobody but Thuringwethil can play Aydanci worth half a lentil and even she needs a lot of tries to get better than caricatures, and to correct all the other slips."

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"Does that mean we should fetch him? So he can be convincingly him and you can verify there weren't any restarts..."

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"You clearly have something new in play here with the truth potion."

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"Oh, Timothy can outright do mind control, he should really demonstrate."

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"I am not sure that'd help."

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"...in this scenario he won't do it without your express advance consent. Since he is a decent person and loves a you and all. If that's reassuring."

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"Mm-hm."

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"...sorry?"

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"He's looking for threads that'll be picked up later to justify everyone suddenly hurting him and you're dropping some."

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"But he knows one of us, he knows we'd never -"

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"Yeah, I started to say 'I'd never' to my Maitimo once. He said 'Kib would never'. The difference has been rather driven home - it's really amazing how convincingly your personality goes on all sorts of nastiness, works way better than trying to pin it on Aydanci or Findekáno -"

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He looks neutral.

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He just looks confused.

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"Is the premise here that you are too innocent to fill in the blanks," Kib asks Bright. "I could relate the highlights of the time I was rolled back and Aydanci decided he didn't want me to have boyfriends and Maitimo didn't like that answer, would that be fun."

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"...I've never actually dated anybody so I think I'd be missing the implications of a story about romantic strife for that reason, rather than innocence as it relates to how terrible other worlds are? You can tell me about it if you like..."

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Snort.

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"...'romantic strife'."

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Okay now he's totally bewildered. 

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"Yeah I guess you could sum it up like that if this seems to you to capture the spirit of 'he told me he didn't mind being secret from Aydanci too, I told him no we actually had to break up, he fucked me anyway, I told Aydanci I wanted to move back to our world and why, Aydanci - they had to try thirty times to get something I didn't find completely outrageous, eventually they went with "had doubts I was really Aly". Left me, and left Maitimo with nobody who needed appeasing by my presence - told everyone I'd gone with my husband, threw me in a dungeon for variously abusive visits at his convenience'? Does that seem best summarized that way."

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"Eventually I escaped and took Findekáno off into my world and I don't know what that was supposed to turn into because around then I could no longer be kept awake and the scenario was abandoned when I shut down."

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"What does the Enemy even - get out of -"

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"I'm pretty sure Sauron gets off on it but I don't know about Melkor or for that matter special guest star Thuringwethil."

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"Do you want us to leave?"

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"It doesn't matter, I don't have built-up flinches about this stuff. When I get a rescue hallucination I'm very snuggly."

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" - I kind of think it matters - I wouldn't want to - if there was any point at which you thought that was plausible, no matter how misinformed you were at the time -"

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"Normally when confronted with the evidence of my senses and not aware that I'm in Angband I do in fact believe them. My Maitimo would never. He just gets adorably turned on trimming my hair for me, that's all. Or he used to."

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Shiver. 

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"I don't see what the point is of populating the scenario with off-brand Maitimos. I guess I'll find out eventually."

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"We can leave if you want."

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"You aren't bothering me, your presence is similarly confusing whether you're around or just off-page for the moment."

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"You should go."

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He looks miserably at Kib.

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"Do you want a hug? I'm considering doing the cuddly thing anyway just to pass the time, except none of you are claiming to be my Maitimo."

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"We can get him if you want?"

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"He's not very cuddly anymore. ...Sometimes if I was wrapped up in a lot of blankets and held real still. You'll bring in whoever you want to bring in, I'm sure."

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Shiver.

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"Don't feel obliged to entertain me. The movies are great, you should compliment whatever creative orcs you have on the writing staff."

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"We're not going to leave you alone and it's probably good for me in the long run."

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"Sure."

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"But obviously if you'd rather not have company we'll leave."

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"You're not bothering me."

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"I believe you but that's kind of hard to imagine, given -"

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"Even mid-hallucination I had better coping strategies than flinching every time he visited me in my dungeon, seriously."

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"I think I'd be significantly less horrified by believing myself at risk than by - being believed to be -"

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"Yeah. Not fun."

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"And there's really nothing to say, either, is there."

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Shrug. "Like what?"

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"That would help. I understand you would hardly tell me."

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"Most things don't help when coached anyway."

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"Usually I don't find myself in need of coaching."

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"Yes, well, you seem to be playing the part of 'clueless variant Maitimo' and - you, what's your shtick, is it being very quiet or what."

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"I am less easily shocked, and new here also. I'm sort of trying to think what the Enemy could get out of it but it seems rude to speculate aloud about that."

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"I don't know. He never bothered shouting at us about what he was doing to Maitimo, so he's probably not collecting material to upset my loved ones. He's got better repertoire than this if he wants to make me program golems. I think he just likes fucking with people."

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"Charming. Maybe. He can hurt your loved ones even without any shouting at them, though, if some people make it out and so other peoples' loved ones know what to expect..."

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"Maitimo never went into much detail and he himself won't really believe I was captured. So there's that."

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"Mes are unusually good liars. But - yeah." Sigh. "After a couple thousand years you'll probably believe it, right?"

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"After a couple thousand years he'll probably believe it," he says to his alt.

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This appears to cheer him up significantly.

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Good for him.

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"What's the movie about?"

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"Bunch of people all very concerned about pseudopolitical matchmaking. Cam provided cultural footnotes and the novel version."

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"...huh."

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"I guess this is the Earth version of liking Harthan Empire intrigues or something."

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"Harthan Empire?"

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"Historical empire on my world."

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"About which people watch political intrigues?"

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"Read, usually, it's not a popular subject of acted drama."

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"Movies take a hundred people a short year to make, usually."

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"Seems a little excessive."

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"Not really, there're a bunch of specialized expertises you need all lined up and you usually capture a scene a lot before you get it exactly the way you like it and they compose original music for the soundtracks - well, no idea if humans do that - and they have to make all the costumes and have six of everything since one scene might be shot over the course of a week, and you need to do the shots at the same time of day every day or the lighting will all be wrong..."

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"There's music in this, couldn't tell you if it's original."

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"You could pick up filmmaking as a hobby if you're skeptical of how much time could go into it."

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"Mm-hm."

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Sigh.

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"You could have more advanced equipment than you give him which cuts down the time."

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Deeper sigh.

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"Also nothing about the movie is artistically more impressive than fully realistic hallucinatory sensoriums and it doesn't have to conform to any known personality."

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"Elf movies are much nicer as art, frame by frame, than our VR but I don't know what I'm comparing to."

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"Several of those words failed to translate."

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"VR is our - the hallucinations thing, but under your control and for entertainment and with technology. Frame by frame is - the way movies are made, they're really just a hundred twenty high resolution pictures a second but your brain can't parse changes that fast so it parses it as motion."

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"Maybe I just don't have the artistic discernment."

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Helpless shrug. "I don't know anything about the show you're watching, or about human artistic discernment, or... I've never met a human before and my current pool of experiences with humans suggests that interactions will be a nonstop relentless horror show so I might have to build up my tolerance before we go do trade negotiations with the temple-guild world."

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"Have you considered meeting humans who have been tortured less and working your way up?"

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"Timothy was a nonstop horror show and he hasn't had anything at all traumatic happen to him personally. Daeva summoning was and I think most daeva have lovely lives."

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"What's the matter with Timothy besides the scary truth drugs?"

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"His entire world? Dement- should I not say this, will he think it's setup -"

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"We just execute escapees of Angband, I'm not exactly an expert on their handling."

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"Nothing that has any way of getting into the bar and affecting you, but lots of horrible things affecting the people in his world."

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"I'll look forward to it becoming relevant, shall I?"

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"It's not going to become relevant."

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"Hallelujah."

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"He put them all in deep space and Miranda figured out how to kill them. They're never going to be relevant to anyone or anything ever again."

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"How to add color to the setup without following through on the special effects, lesson one..."

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"Timothy or Cam could bounce the memories to Midnight and he can send them to you, if you really want them for some reason."

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"I don't see why I would want that."

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"If you're going to make comments about how some thing is evidence we're Melkor it's going to be hard not to suggest ways to verify the thing is not actually the case."

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"I'm pretty sure you're Melkor. I'm drawing inferences about who he's got plotting this one."

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"Who? Since, given that we're Melkor, we can read your mind?"

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"I do think it may be mildly inconvenient to read my mind. Although the little computer may be some kind of exception to that. Anyway, I don't recognize the style, maybe it's somebody new. It'd probably be a tragic waste of talent never to bring orcs in on these things and there could totally be an up-and-comer all excited about the chance to direct who does absurdist shit and gets good reviews in some sort of orc periodical."

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"Mmmhmm."

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"Maybe I will nickname the posited orc."

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We execute them without exceptions because that way there can't be rescue hallucinations, see.

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Is that actually a humanitarian achievement I'm not categorically opposed to the idea but I'm not sure the math works -

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It's not the main reason just - motivating.

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Main reason is?

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If Melkor released someone it is because it is in Melkor's interests for that person to have been released.

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Everything is horrible and I want to go sing.

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I expect he'll dismiss us soon enough.

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Kib does not seem aware that he is expected to formally dismiss them.

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So they stay. "Humans like popcorn with their movies."

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"What's that?"

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"No idea."

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"I could summon a demon and ask for popcorn."

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Kib unpauses Pride and Prejudice.

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They sit quietly and watch.

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It's a pretty engaging story. Eventually it is over.

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"Do you want popcorn? Do you want space?"

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"I don't know what popcorn is either and I don't care if you're here or not."

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"Let's find out what popcorn is."

 

And he starts carefully drawing out a circle.

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When he is done, a demon appears.

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"Hi, I'm Maitimo! Chani gave me a list of people who might want to be summoned for the languages."

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"Ooh, yes. Oh what lovely phonetics. Can I get you anything?" It has the th phoneme and everything! Yay!

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"While you're here we would actually love to try popcorn, is that doable?"

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"Sure, just plain, or -?"

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"Does it come in varieties? Could we try several?"

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"Yeah sure! Any allergies?" Kettle corn, cheddar, lots of butter, hm what else.

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"Kib?"

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"I am not known to have any allergies."

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"We should all be good, then." 

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"I need a token something, the language doesn't work for it..."

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"Yes, I put together a list earlier of poetry recommendations and linguistic history records, but I don't have it on me, can you fetch yourself a copy as payment? First item on the list was Curufinwë Fëanáro's 'on the aims of a united theory of Quenya syntax' -"

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"Mentioning it exists counts. Deal," says the demon, and he makes three buckets of popcorn.

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"Thank you so much. Do you have any friends who would like Quenya and Thindarin and an embarrassingly vague smattering of my world's human languages?"

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"Oh yeah, you want the membership list of my linguistics club?"

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"I would love it!"

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So the demon provides it.

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And the demon can go home! 

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He vanishes!

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"What's an allergy?"

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"Humans have this thing where their bodies will mistakenly interpret harmless substances as deadly poisons and then overreact in response, sometimes by for example their throats swelling up until they choke to death."

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He munches popcorn.

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Kib also tries the popcorn. He gravitates toward the cheese kind.

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When the popcorn is all eaten they will leave.

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That's fine.

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And go outside and flop in the grass and sing miserably for three days straight.

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He doesn't do that. He goes to his room and solicits cuddles.

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Kib finishes the movie and reads the novel and the cultural footnotes and watches another movie and goes downstairs for dinner.

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This time the bar contains the small Maitimo and his parents, who are flipping through textbooks and osanwëing at each other and occasionally saying a phrase out loud that makes no sense without the context.

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And a bunch of human children -

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 - one of whom is a demon. You can tell because he keeps making stuff and then waving a wand and Vanishing it. Kinda constantly.

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Cute. Kib makes a note of the bar population and then gets a recommendation from Bar and starts eating.

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No one bothers him!

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Ambela bothers him a little, but leaves him be after a brief check-in, and then she goes out.

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That really is a very distraught Elf. (You can tell by the singing; his face is only a little distraught.)

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She goes over to sit with him and sing along for a bit.

Are you all right?

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Relative to newly established benchmarks for what not being all right can constitute, sure.

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Given long enough and the fact that he can verify things are going on in real time without reversions he'll know he's out sooner or later. Can I help you -?

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Midnight said that too but - there've been a hundred sixteen, much easier to conclude we've gotten better at it -

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Most of them were not making bids for convincingness even in the sense of containing characters claiming they were real.

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Have you heard about allergies?

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No, what's an allergy?

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He bounces her the interaction with the demon and Midnight's explanation.

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What a stupid thing for a species to have.

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Yep.

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I'll have to ask Cam if they're curable in his world.

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Yeah. 

 

 

Do you think Kib'd prefer we not share things he said -

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...He'd presumably be similarly forthcoming with any of us, already assumes the worst case scenario in terms of who has the information, and might find it annoying to keep track of which of us is supposed to know which thing. I wouldn't expect momentary concerns about privacy to feature heavily in his opinions after he knows we're real. But those are reasons not to avoid it, not reasons to do it if you wouldn't like to.

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So he bounces her Kib's hallucination-explanation.

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She hugs him.

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It's not about how I feel. But hug.

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Well, I could go hug Kib, but I don't think he'd benefit from it.

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Doesn't seem likely. Is there anything that would help -

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He's comfortable moment to moment. Doesn't currently want to die, even conditioning on it actually killing him in real life, even though there's a substantial chance that it would start him over again. He acts like he does because he doesn't see a need to self-censor the first things that pop into his head.

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There isn't a need. I just - why would anyone be so pointlessly aggressively senselessly evil?

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I don't know. Ours didn't explain himself satisfactorily. The fact that Cam's was willing to stop to get the Valar killed is suggestive but I'm not sure of what.

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Sigh.

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Squeeze.

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You really think he'll eventually be okay?

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It'll take a while, especially by his own standards, but yes.

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Okay.

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You really don't have to worry about sitting with him if it's hard for you; being alone is unusually difficult for you and he's not like that.

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I should learn as many horrifying things as I can now so they don't shock me when they matter.

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That's an option too.

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If he'd rather be alone that's one thing.

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He really doesn't have a preference. Cam and Miranda and I are checking on him now and then and he's roughly indifferent past that.

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Time differences make that hard.

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He has a computer. You can send him messages if you want.

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I have no idea what I want and don't really think it's a useful way to be deciding what to do right now.

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All right.

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There're so many worlds -

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Nod.

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Singing.

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Yes, that.

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He's going to be at it awhile.

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She hugs him again and leaves eventually.

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His boyfriend is - pensive. 

 

It's a little worrying. It is not as relaxing as it should be, this little bubble outside of time, both because of the serious excess of Maitimos and because the situation seems designed for instability. Anyone could walk in at any time. 

"Sauron could walk in," he says to Midnight.

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"Yes. Are you afraid of that?"

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"I mean, off Kib's description, I'm not sure what the difference -"

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He slaps him.

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"The conventional wisdom on - evil - is that Melkor introduced it. If that were meaningful, our world would have more evil because Melkor introduced it more effectively."

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"Our world has less evil, though."

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"I think the other mes would trade," he says, "the personal treatment, if it meant their yous had never gone through Angband. But the other mes can trust their yous, they want the same things in general, and I don't think they'd trade that - I don't think the other Maitimos would want to trade that -"

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"I haven't met any of me who've been through Angband."

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"Yes, I know that."

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"Go downstairs and get us something to eat."

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He does that.

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Karen looks up from where she and Miranda are giving Cam and Ambela an overview on magic. "Whoa, time dilation," she says. "Or are you a different one -?"

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"Nope, we met a couple days ago. Karen, right?"

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"Yeah but your hair, are you sure it wasn't like a decade, it was so short!"

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" - I suffered a serious head injury in a skirmish a few months before we found this place. I was growing it back out anyway - Elves really don't like short hair - but then we found Milliways and I summoned a demon to put it back for me."

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"I would've done it, why summon one?"

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"Preferred someone I'd never see again. Also Maitimo adores summoning demons and prefers it to walking a flight of stairs, this is far from the most trivial thing he's summoned someone out of some Hell linguistics department over."

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"...so did you summon them or did he, it might matter if either of you has a freak accident and we have to check if you're a daeva."

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"We've both summoned several but it would really surprise me if soul Elves can become daeva given that chip Elves can't even when they're dead with chips destroyed and no backups. We're strictly more immortal than that. I guess if the Killing Curse turns out to work on Melkors it can be presumed to work on us as well, and maybe that's dead enough the daeva thing kicks in?"

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He crawls out from under the table, triumphantly clutching a small dragon.

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He giggles. "Bar, dinner for two?"

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Stew in bread bowls! Corn on the cob! Chocolate cake!

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"Thank you!" He goes upstairs.

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"If something is not good for us to know because we're little you should just say that instead of making up stories," he announces to his dragon.

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He continues upstairs.

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Was he making up a story?

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Yeah.

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Which parts?

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Shrug. Only a few parts? But that's how to tell good stories - the whole thing was meant to make a made up story? Does that make sense? Even the true parts.

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Yes, that makes sense.

Thank you.

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He beams at her.

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She pats him on the shoulder.

She asks Cam to send her his notes on the rest of the magic overview, and goes elsewhere to think.

And then she sends a message that asks Midnight if he is available to talk.

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Sure, where?

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Either of their rooms is fine with her.

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So he invites her over. 

 

He has had linguistics department daeva pretty the place up. It has live plants and a waterfall and a bookcase full of handwritten books. 

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"I like what you've done with the place." She sits.

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"Thank you! Humans don't need pretty places so after a while we stopped making the primarily human-trafficked ones resource intensive kinds of pretty but it is among the compromises I've made that I am not at all fond of."

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"Daeva should be able to fill the resource gap nicely."

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"Daeva are the best. You should get your me into summoning, it's high-downside but not actually at all likely to be a negative experience and there are things you can do to mitigate even that - the linguists are really not dangerous -"

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"I'll mention it to him."

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"The multiverse must be even more overwhelming, coming from a background when there actually wasn't anything horribly pressingly terrible..."

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"Well, not anymore. I think my alts occasionally forget that not only do we have a Melkor of interstellar-Arda-typical intentions and capacities, that Melkor had forks of my husband, and I am not completely incapacitated by the idea of misfortune."

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"Oh good. It's not very useful. Did anyone try - rescues -"

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"Some people wanted to try rescue simulations of theirs, yes. It was not a much repeated project and the rescued did not appreciate it. Most of them were in much, much subjectively longer than Kib and of course had no protective dreams. Having duplicates available made it possible to run much more sophisticated simulations, too, if Kib weren't in a Flat Angband he couldn't reasonably derive anything from having perfectly-personalitied alts around."

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Nod. "Congratulations on averting his parole."

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"Thank you."

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"What did you want to talk about?"

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"I'm not satisfied with the story Findekáno told to explain Karen's observation about his hair when he first came in. I imagine you can lie to me with arbitrary convincingness and selectively worded oaths. But if there's nothing the matter, then there still won't be anything the matter if I ask Cam to conjure up confirmations or disconfirmations of whatever you care to tell me; and if there is something the matter I would like to extend you the chance to fix it without Cam or anyone else but me suspecting it was ever there."

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"That's thoughtful of you. Thank you. It was short for a couple centuries, partially because I like it and partially for political reasons."

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"Why did you ask me and not him about this?"

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"You don't have reformed oaths."

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"No, we don't. I'm impressed that it was possible retroactively. I don't know that it will be for us."

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"It might not be. I haven't asked the Valar yet."

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"Orcs should be okay even if it isn't, if we just put them on a planet without Elves."

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"That won't do it by itself if they have ongoing expectations about what serving Melkor might mean and he isn't outright dead, or if orcs ever invent the means to travel on their own, and this is a bit of a distraction."

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"I apologize."

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"He's okay. I understand why you wouldn't take his or my word for that."

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Nod.

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"I'm going to have an easier time answering questions than volunteering several hundred years of fairly private information. Do you want to think of some and get back to me?"

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"When you say he's okay," she says, "what do you mean?"

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"The thing we care about most, stopping the Enemy, is going to happen. There will be lots to do and he is happy with how much influence over it he'll have. And he's endlessly smug about all of the other mes. We're sort of - going to take a couple of Years to figure everything out - but I think he'll come out of it satisfied with everything."

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"That sounds more like you expect that he will be okay, than that he is now."

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"I'm not sure there's any difference? We have forever. Expectations about how things are going to be in the long term are - much more relevant to whether I feel okay than contingent situational stuff. Same for him."

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"I think you have higher standards for how much you want to benefit most people."

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"I do. If I were trying to do right by him I'd be doing very different things."

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"Why aren't you?"

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"During the war or now?"

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"Both."

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"During the war because - the Enemy likes to play games, you know, send out thousands of orcs with their children, see what you do, do you murder babies or redirect all your resources to raising them - escapees, most of whom are alright, but one in ten and even I couldn't identify which ones would murder a hundred people in the night - escapees carrying children who aren't orcs at all but are, you know, old enough to talk, and that means -

- I asked myself if I could do that for as many centuries as it might be needed of me, do it right, do it without ever getting tired or careless or compromising with my own exhaustion. And the answer was no. So I figured out what I'd need, and I took it. It's not doing right by him but it was doing right by the priorities he cared about, most of the time. 

Here - well, now I have to figure out what we are for the rest of eternity and I know it has to change but I don't want to rush ahead, I'm terrified I'll mess it up."

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"Do you need help?"

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"Yeah, probably."

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Nod. "What's the state of things right now?"

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"He's sworn to obey me, with exceptions but not as many as it'd take for that to be conscionable even by the standards of my society."

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"Can you release him outright or only cease to give him orders?"

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"Can't release him outright unless oath reforms do work on our kind of Elves."

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He can probably tell that she's repressing a reproachful sigh. "Did he happen to swear on a Vala, if yours can ever be talked into behaving themselves?"

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"No."

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"That's going to make it hard. Have you come up with anything already?"

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"I was mostly planning to compensate by doing a really excellent job at all of the other things he cares about."

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"Arranging to win in a hypothetical global tradeoff against other possibilities doesn't really count as doing right by him."

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"We talked about it a little bit. He thought it was at least possible that I could keep him and be someone he could love and respect. That is what I am aiming for."

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"Did he say how?"

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"No. Said he'd tell me if things were in the right direction."

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"Any progress?"

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"Yeah. We've talked about why my alts are different and about what we're going to do when we have more resources and as you obviously noticed he has his hair back and his orders are honestly so relaxed he could probably find a loophole but he won't, he's waiting to see what I do."

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"Is he free to talk to me as he pleases, if I go find him?" she inquires.

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"No. I could give him permission but I can't actually think how I could prove I have."

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"It seems likely one of your alts could tell but that would involve more publicity than seems productive; I doubt they'd take it well."

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"They wouldn't. I think he'd be upset with me if I tried to force him to lie to you about this when you're trying to help us; I won't do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it is ever vitally important I believe Miranda would get me some Veritaserum without needing to know why."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't do that when he is under orders, you might hurt him."

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"Of course not; it would just be an option if you needed to verify something to me such that I could believe it was not - misshapen. And the availability of the option calibrates how much credence I should assign things when it's not offered me."

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"If you want to talk to him I'll give him permission to talk to you."

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"I would, yes."

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"All right."

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"Is there anything I should know before I do?"

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"I don't think he appreciates it when people are demonstratively horrified on his behalf, not that you seem especially so tempted. Don't tell him what to do. He was really freaked out that your set had children."

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Nod.

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"Thank you."

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"You're welcome."

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"Anything else?"

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She shakes her head. She goes.

She asks Findekáno when it would be convenient to talk.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm not in the middle of anything time-sensitive. What about?

Permalink Mark Unread

You and your Maitimo.

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Are you downstairs?

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No, but if you prefer I could meet you there.

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Wherever's convenient.

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My room? Rúmil's elsewhere at the moment.

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Sure. 

 

 

And a short time later there's a knock on her door.

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She lets him in. "Hello."

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"Hi."

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She bounces a summary of her conversation with Midnight.

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Nod. "I'm sorry for lying to you."

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"Under the circumstances I can hardly blame you."

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"Still." He sits down. "What outcome are you trying to help him achieve?"

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"I'd like him to be able to operate in better faith with the people we find ourselves among."

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"That seems reasonable. I don't get the sense they'd take the news very well."

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"They would not. It doesn't seem like it would really serve anyone's highest priorities for people to feel obliged to shun him out of concern for you, but they can not do that out of ignorance of the past without having to be so actively deceived regarding the present. And while I don't know how unpleasant a time of it you're currently having I suspect it could be better."

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"I - yes, definitely, but - this has been going on for four hundred years, did he say that?"

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"Not so exactly, but approximately, yes."

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"And he's Maitimo, and he can read me very easily, so - if something is not helpful to feel, I mostly got out of the habit? I'm only angry at him abstractly, I don't usually get too upset, I was mostly prepared to consider it a victory if he just uses all this new power well and doesn't sanction this kind of thing generally. I'm worried if he didn't have a way to control me he wouldn't want me around at all - I don't like him, see, you know how they are about that..."

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"And you prefer he want you around?"

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"He's a better person and better at his job when I am."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Be that as it may, good faith does imply some constraints on his private life even if they aren't as conventionally to your benefit as they might otherwise be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am hardly going to complain about you working towards your goals just because they happen to imperfectly coincide with mine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you. What do you think I should know?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh - back home it was an open secret, you're not going to keep it one if there's extended contact with our world, though I guess that's straightforward enough to prevent. At home there was a very sophisticated system to keep me around, he's stopped that. At home there were frequently mind-altering oaths and mind-altering magic, he's stopped that too. He hasn't hurt me since we got here either but that he does infrequently enough I don't know if it's a change of policy, he hasn't clarified. The government is significantly more - I don't know a word - it leans much more heavily on ensuring the unquestioned authority of its sovereign than is necessary? That he's been actively working to fix, and he's been working on more humane ways to keep people in line..."

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"Do you think the recent changes are situational, specific to Milliways, or not?"

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" - I think the changes to policy priorities are intended to be permanent, he wants to run his country in a way that impresses even people from ones with lots more resources. The personal things - it'd be much much harder here to give me orders careful enough I couldn't find a way to communicate something if I wanted to, so I think he might be avoiding giving me any reason to do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So they can be expected to hold at least as long as it would be inconvenient to prevent you from talking to third parties."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, now you're complicating that. Yesterday I'd have said so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's true that I'd take sudden quietude to be worrying."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not paranoid enough - he could have me swear to share all of his goals, say, which would presumably include appeasing you, and then we could stay in touch while he did as he pleased. I really hate that oath and usually ask for an expiration date and if he tried to insist on it without one I'd probably be difficult, but he could have bought himself a year that way easily enough, and he hasn't."

Permalink Mark Unread

...Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

Raised eyebrow. "Something wrong?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it weren't part of my attempt to negotiate in good faith I'd want to consult my alts for paranoia assistance."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't suppose phrasing it as hypothetical would be very convincing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Kib would probably try to guess the rest of the plot for me but he'd take it as threatening."

Permalink Mark Unread

He flinches. "Yes, that really doesn't sound worth it. Is he going to be okay?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Eventually."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod. "I can try to give you advice on sufficient paranoia, if it might help. You should assume that he is easier to incentivize to cooperate than he is to corner into it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That was my assumption, yes. But unverifiable cooperation calls for a different starting point."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it unverifiable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, just inconvenient."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod. "If you could get him to agree to additional constraints on his conduct, what would you ask for -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If possible I'd like to avoid the temptation to think about it in those terms."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What terms are you trying to think about it in -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...I think he's falling short of what is verifiably his potential."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I appreciate you doing this."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hope it gets somewhere."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I expect it will eventually. I think he might have gotten there on his own, eventually, without the war hanging over all our heads, and it can only help to have more people - well, that's not true, it could easily hurt, but I think you know what you're doing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I try. Feel entirely free to tell me if I steer wrongly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, I will."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. "Yours are - they're okay, they're good parents..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They are, they're such good parents, the children are happy and safe and beloved."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Thank you." Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome."

 

And she goes and finds her husband and basks in being in a functional loving relationship.

Permalink Mark Unread

He feels very appreciated despite having no idea why!!

Permalink Mark Unread

Meanwhile, Cam runs ecological simulations to see just how many butterflies he can cram into this planet. It seems appropriate for there to be a shit ton of butterflies.

Permalink Mark Unread

"What're you up to?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Terraforming planning! Editing from Mars plans because they don't want to import animals, so it all has to work with bugs and stuff only."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It looks lovely. Why aren't they importing animals -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No Valar to babysit them and make sure that they don't get parasites or whatever."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- very funny -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, seriously, that's why, it would make them sad if they brought in bunnies and the bunnies reproduced as bunnies do and then ninety percent of their offspring died because they ate all the grass or because there were also imported hawks."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I see. Animals on Valinor and Endorë are prevented from doing this?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Apparently! I can't say I ever paid much attention to the fauna on my Arda, I'm not sure if it was extended to Endorë there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm impressed that you can even have fauna at all with that much - uh, management, or whatever. Are they going to want to do it everywhere?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am not aware of it being a priority."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm really trying to be broad-minded here, I do think most of all this moral progress was in the direction of, well, genuine good. But - what a resource-intensive thing to do. How does an all-bug ecosystem go?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right now I'm working on pollinators, cutting out anything that needs birds or bats for that. Bees and butterflies."

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is for the portal planet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yup."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Looks lovely. You should save some work for the jump, or can the flat Valar portal us a workaround to that too?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm pacing myself. I don't think they're currently planning to portalize the trip but maybe they are and I just haven't heard."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope! I don't want Valinor or Endorë to be invaded, or very unwise children to go wandering into other worlds - also don't want the portal places to invade each other but we've only got one for the moment and can revise as appropriate..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Five day jumps it is. I will have to somehow occupy myself."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am sure you'll be dying of boredom. Maybe Mars can get a folder full of previous terraforming projects of yours, and then they'll be all impressed and clamor to hire you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You have a lot of confidence in me considering that my resume so far consists of having made a planet I copied whole."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am an endless font of confidence in you. And I'm always right about people."

Permalink Mark Unread

Wag. Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. And he snuggles and watches terraforming until - "I signed up to go interact with Kib a little."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure why you're doing the timeslots thing, but okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless he has a preference not to be interacted with we'd feel terrible about just ignoring him until he's satisfactorily graceful company but being around people who think you are Melkor is hard."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We are not extroverts, he will legit be okay with much less company than you're assigning him, but knock yourself out I guess."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, there's definitely a bit of 'if it were me' going on, but it's been a couple days." Upstairs!

Permalink Mark Unread

Accompanied!

Permalink Mark Unread

Kib is reading a book. "Hi."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hi! Should we shoo?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't care. I wonder if this is what my Maitimo meant about not having preferences any more."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Did he say that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pretty much. I mean, I can still pick what to have for dessert in a nonrandom fashion, lucky me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's sad."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maitimo's indifference to chocolate, my continued ability to prefer raspberries to blueberries, or my indifference to company?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The me not wanting things. The indifference to company doesn't make any sense but I shouldn't say people wanting things that aren't what I want are sad."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I really want the me to be okay but I don't know how to do it. He won't believe us like you don't believe us and it'll be sad."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Crossed my mind too. We're really pretty unbelievable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Noticed that, did you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. No idea what to do about it - we could hide a lot of people, but with the me that'll just make it obvious we're hiding something, scare him worse -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Are you fishing for advice on how to convince him if you ever get him again - fuck you -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you prefer I leave after all, that's fine -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It does not make a difference if you're in the fucking room or not!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They're making a butterfly planet to connect worlds to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lovely."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We could connect the dead babies world if you want!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there a compelling in-scenario reason to consult me on that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm mostly just making conversation, actually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mmhm."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'll let you read."

Permalink Mark Unread

So he picks up his book again.

Permalink Mark Unread

And they leave.

Permalink Mark Unread

Elsewhere he's idly digging a groove into his desk. "Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course." Snuggle. "I hope she's helpful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think it's true? That I'm not living up the potential -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes," he says instantly. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wouldn't it be an insult if I thought this was the best you were capable of being?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Stop being clever with me, Findekáno, all of this is terrifying."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can scarcely imagine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Kiss me and stop talking."

Permalink Mark Unread

He has gotten very expressive with his eyebrows. 

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

Ambela picks up a habit of visiting Midnight on a routine basis for small talk and less small talk.

"- so how did this even start, was there ever a point where you were managing the relationship differently?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, yes, we were involved without any coercion before I murdered his parents."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose that is the sort of thing that would cause relationship strain."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I think it was the right choice given the options I had but I haven't tried to convince him of that. Anyway, I - I had people drag him out of bed and across the city and I told him his parents were dead and I asked if he wanted to join them or swear not to get in my way -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Was all of that really necessary?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"To end the civil war? It wasn't - obviously unnecessary? I think all of it increased the chances that his people would surrender peacefully, in some cases not by that much and I can see where someone wouldn't have considered more unity at that point a good tradeoff for - people being afraid of you and hating you - the assassinations were all necessary. I didn't kill anyone who I could have possibly left alive if I wanted the war over that morning."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Never having ended a civil war I cannot contradict you but the rest of it - for one thing it seems he's sworn to more than not getting in your way, why phrase it like that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, I tinkered later to get - the public confrontation was optimized for appearances, not for how I actually wanted to handle having the heir to Nolofinwë's faction close to me during the war. Later I - negotiated with him for - the wording I wanted - I promised not to hurt his family -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Swore or just promised?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Just promised."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you happen to know why he settled for that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably because he trusted me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Under the circumstances that sounds like a reach."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I had not by that point done anything our society would regard as dishonorable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose that's one standard of trust. Did you actually decline to hurt his family further?"

Permalink Mark Unread

He looks genuinely offended. "Of course."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't have a very good way to predict what insinuations will offend you," she says.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I keep my word. If I didn't I would be a very bad king, which is much more - important to do right - than my personal life."

Permalink Mark Unread

"All right. And so now you have him in a time unlimited unreleaseable oath of obedience."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not immediately sure how to incorporate that into anything healthy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I've been struggling with that too. I really really like it. If he'd agreed willingly it'd be - very soothing to have - but -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If he'd agreed to the oath or just agreed to do as you said?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The oath is specifically reassuring."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why's that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I manage everybody, and it's permission to not do that anymore, or at least to do it exactly to the degree it pleases me..."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Hm."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I realize it's horrifying. I might need it less when I'm just less exhausted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not that - if the others find it exhausting at all I haven't noticed, they seem rather to thrive on it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I love managing people. Managing them into death and things worse than that, less so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's still not clear why ceasing to do it at all would constitute stress relief."

Permalink Mark Unread

"In that case I'm not sure how to explain it. I'd spent forever being so so excruciatingly careful because if the Valar guessed anything about me they would erase everything about me, and then I did the most calculatedly selfish, horrifying, permanent thing I could possibly desire and - no one stopped me. It was mine. And I brought everyone around to being all right with it. It was enormously reassuring."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...So it was still sort of a verification of your people-management capacity."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- oh, of course. A more satisfying one. Getting someone to fall in love with you is an easier problem than getting everyone to accept that you keep your defeated political enemies chained to your bed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do not think you will be able to pull the latter off with respect to people here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I noticed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think you can switch back to getting him to fall in love with you at this point?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I thought I were going to lose him I'd try. It'd be - challenging. He hates me - which is of course entirely warranted -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm surprised you decided that would be tolerable - it was, I assume, predictable -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Didn't really have a choice about it. He was going to hate me once I had his parents killed and hundreds of people'd died that day in clashes in the streets I needed the war to end. So the only question was, given that he was going to hate me, whether I wanted to just have him live far enough away I didn't get reminders very often, or - not that. It's really only tolerable because of the oaths, I don't know how I'd handle it without that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How do the oaths make it tolerable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I sort of asked myself - what is it that makes it miserable for people to hate me? And it was - I can't hand them things they'd be good at, can't be confident that we can work together, can't trust them, can't be relaxed or feel safe in their presence, have to recalculate everything that touches them around the possibility they'll undermine me on purpose..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So their regard in itself is - secondary, or not a factor at all?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Secondary. Like wanting them to be happy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Were you listening in when Findekáno said he prefers you to want him around -?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. I usually am paying attention to him, if he's in range. If he weren't magically bound to obey me but I were very sure he'd do it anyway, I think that'd work, is that - a reasonable thing to aim for?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was thinking that obedience qua obedience wasn't on the list of things you mentioned - if you have the usual expertise at matching tasks to people that can certainly be understood without you assigning them by fiat, the very fact that he prefers to be present should ensure that you can work with him and trust him because the alternative would be somehow slipping subterfuge past you..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Might work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it didn't work why would that be?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's outrageously stressful to have him around, or he won't sleep with me without orders..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Stressful how?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because he hates me and all our cooperation basically runs off my ability to read him well enough to catch if he's undermining me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's motivated to avoid this problem, I think; is there something he could do to head it off?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, and I think he'll do fine at it, but you asked how it could go wrong and that's how."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod. "Is the second part nonnegotiable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Would be if it could be but I take it it's also going to be nonnegotiable for everyone else."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not certain there is nothing that would qualify as wiggle room but, yes, it's a problem if as a standing feature of your relationship it's a disaster should he turn you down."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose I could tell him he can and see how often it comes up."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll talk with him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good skill."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

And she leaves him be.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Midnight has a spare necklace," he says idly to Cam while designing a setup for potionmaking with the minimum necessary human intervention.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oooh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think Kib would appreciate it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, prrrrobably not. Not that the effect wouldn't be nice, it'd just represent an intrusive level of mindfuckery he doesn't already know we have handy."

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh. Nod. "In that case I think I will steal it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Awwwww."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You could probably look so sad I decided to give it to you but you would have to look terribly sad, I really want it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam pouts but not very convincingly.

Permalink Mark Unread

He is not very convinced. He waves over Midnight to open the door and Accios the necklace and - "Oooohh."

Permalink Mark Unread

He quickly closes the door. "I'll have more of them made."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should really try installing a chip anyway. Probably in Sanity so the competent Valar can be sure I'll get the forking protection."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have we checked that it still works when they're outside Sanity?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess it could stand some more testing. Good thing we can tell without actually forking people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Maybe just check from Milliways and also from some other dimension - have any of you stepped into one of the flat Ardas - make sure it's persistent -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We know it's persistent in Milliways, that's how we found out about fork protections in the first place."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We know you cannot fork in Milliways someone who has never left Sanity. If the way they prevent forking is something about Sanity, then it might be chip writes when the chipbearer is in Milliways aren't secured."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough." Cam makes a list of tests to try.

Permalink Mark Unread

He goes back to potion-planning, except for the tests that involve wizardry-chip-duplication and wizardry enchantment-cancelling (neither do anything).

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam asks Bright if he can think of a forking-risking volunteer to check the thing - not that the tests require actually instantiating any forks, but forkability will be a consequence given certain possible results.

Permalink Mark Unread

He totally knows somebody! She comes through an hour later, blinks at Milliways - "Wow. Cool, okay, what do you need me to do?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm going to conjure copies of your chip and see if it has the fork protection notice or more data than that on it. Then I need you to step into a different world for a moment and see if it sticks there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, okay, lemme change my permissions first because right now you could do that anyway -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're just really into forking?" he wonders.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Into dying, actually - I know it's weird - anyway, my forking permission set is 'sure, go ahead, but be aware that if I end up somewhere I don't want to be I'll just stop' and then if I ever end up somewhere I don't want to be I'll just stop."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh, okay. Say when."

Permalink Mark Unread

"All set."

Permalink Mark Unread

Test!

Permalink Mark Unread

He gets a chip that politely informs him he does not have forking permissions.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool - okay, now we get someone to hold the door -"

Test 2?

Permalink Mark Unread

He still does not have forking permissions.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Awesome, thanks, can I get you anything for your trouble?"

Permalink Mark Unread

She looks confusedly at Bright; he smiles encouragingly. 

 

"Uh, my mom had an album full of pictures of me and my little sister from way back, film ones, no backups, and she lost them when she moved, she was really broken up about it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam hands it over.

Permalink Mark Unread

Would he like a spontaneous hug from a gleeful Elf because she is so so delighted!!!

Permalink Mark Unread

Awww! Wag wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

And off she goes.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I might convince the Valar to relax a bit on summoning, Midnight's been doing it constantly and hasn't had any problems."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your template might have a natural talent at it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So if the Valar wanted to let only a few people summon I bet they could do that, and we could pick people who are qualified."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That might work fine, sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Still chip yourself in Sanity, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam nods. "Hold the door for me?"

Permalink Mark Unread

He does!

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam steps in and makes himself a chip.

 

...

 

"I don't think it's working."

Permalink Mark Unread

" - that's inconvenient."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I might have to look really sad at Timothy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"While you do that I will see if I know anyone qualified to figure out how to get chips working for daeva."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

He doesn't, but he knows someone who can describe the problem well enough to get some research attention. He does that.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam goes and flops on Timothy. "The chip was a failure. I will have to make do with my brain as-is. How will I ever cope. Pity me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am supposed to look upon the things you have accomplished with your brain-as-is and pity you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Just imagine how accomplished I'd be if I'd been loaded up on blessings!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have the answer to this hypothetical! You talk a pantheon into not sucking, apparently. It takes a while." Snuggle. "You can have it when I'm sleeping."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And invent writing, that too. Bah." Kiss. "Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am assembling you a present that is nearly as good but it is not quite ready. Maybe tomorrow." Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

"My surprise?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it still a surprise? I am not sure Mingling understands the concept."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I don't know what it is besides surprising."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh good." Kiss. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

And it is not the next day but the day after that he gets the last letter he needs and he goes outside when Cam is occupied and draws thirty summoning circles.

Permalink Mark Unread

One by one they fill up with demons.

Permalink Mark Unread

He negotiated payments in advance; he brings demons assortments of magic items, magic potions, lists of books and music, in one case a meet-and-greet with Macalaurë which Macalaureë is clearly enjoying as much as the demon. He gives them all permission to set up; he'd promised Bar he'd get some angels to shoo it all away afterwards.

 

And he goes back in to get Cam. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hm?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's the strangest thing, but there's a live performance of Atriama starting out back in an hour or so. I thought you might want to make your alts watch."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...you didn't -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Summon the entire cast of an aerial ballet that has only ever been performed in Hell, just because demons are hard to give presents and this one manifestly deserves one? Would I do that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam hugs him. "You would. That's insane, you know." Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. "It was delightful! Some people wanted really ridiculous things as payment! There's a dancer who bet me that I couldn't get her a list of a thousand human books in Latin which Hell didn't already have curated... must be extremely puzzled how I pulled it off..."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam laughs and kisses him again.

Permalink Mark Unread

Kissing Cam sounds like a lovely way to pass the time until the performance. He asked Mingling to stay outside and tell him every ten minutes, so they couldn't get badly desynced, now he says - want to invite everyone to the performance?

Permalink Mark Unread

He is meeting all the demons and telling them how pretty their wings are! (So pretty!)

Sure!

 

And he announces to everyone, Timothy's surprise is ready he summoned the whole cast of Cam's favorite aerial ballet and you should all come and see it outside!

Permalink Mark Unread

"Aerial ballet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Flying dance. Cam's wild about Atriama. It has good songs."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oooh, are you going?" he asks Karen and Miranda.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, why not, my alt liking it is probably a good recommendation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds fun!"

Permalink Mark Unread

And Elves come!!

Permalink Mark Unread

Kib shows up. Why not.

Permalink Mark Unread

Timothy solicits snack recommendations from Bar and floats them out!!

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam sits with a wing around his boyfriend, beaming ear to ear.

The musicians (there are in this casting just two) start up with the overture.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's lovely!

Permalink Mark Unread

During intermission while most of the cast is off doing some of the more elaborate costume changes one of the minor actors who has nothing to do while intermittent squints at Cam and conjures some reading material.

 

She doesn't come on during the next scene. She speaks up in the middle of it though.

"Isn't that the guy who holed the planet?"

The lead dancer crashes into her opposite player midair.

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't care if he - whatever's worse than holing a planet, that was startlingly unprofessional," reprimands a chorus member.

"I'm not a professional," says the interrupting actor.

"You are when you're on stage!"

"I wasn't on stage!"

"This is why we did such a short run in the first place, this kind of thing -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Interrupting actor can go home.

Permalink Mark Unread

The musicians uncertainly start the song again. The minor character is hastily understudied by someone who forgets a couple lines.

Permalink Mark Unread

Ugh ugh ugh ugh.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam leans his head on Timothy's shoulder and pretty much manages to enjoy the rest of the performance, if in a more subdued fashion.

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. 

Permalink Mark Unread

The finale plays. The actors and the musicians bow.

Permalink Mark Unread

He thanks them. It was beautiful. Do people want to go back or stay awhile?

Permalink Mark Unread

Most want to go home. A few stay to fly around.

Permalink Mark Unread

As long as they're not staying to harass Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

He remains unharassed and stays close to Timothy.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Am I supposed to ask what 'holed a planet' means?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, you aren't. Why don't you just go away."

Permalink Mark Unread

Kib goes away.

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Sigh. Cam plops his face on Timothy's shoulder. "It was very well thought of," he murmurs.

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"I'm so sorry."

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"It's okay."

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"Next time I will screen them for propensity for -" sigh.

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Hug.

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"Should I apologize for being rude to Kib?"

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"I don't think you bothered him."

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"Didn't think so." Sigh.

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"It was really sweet of you, there was no reason to expect that to happen." Hug.

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"I hadn't realized they knew who it was." Sigh. "Was hoping they wouldn't until it was all put back."

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"All it really takes is somebody who wants to know and has any forensics skill."

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"The thing I am frustrated by is - okay, if I had only the information available to our nosy dancer, I try to figure out - is he currently under a binding, is this place in any danger, are any other worlds in any danger, and presumably a little forensics skill can give you answers on that, too. What kind of priorities do you have to have to think the information calls for public harassment?"

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"He wouldn't have to personally have forensics skill, he'd have to read an investigative reporter's blog."

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"Maybe I will summon an enterprising investigative reporter and give him or her a piece of my mind."

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Snuggle. "It's very sweet how defensive you are of me."

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"It's better now that you have alts but - you weren't going to defend yourself, and I don't like it when people are defenseless."

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"Which is sweet."

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Hug. "I promised Bar I'd clear away all the performance stuff, shouldn't take me too long..."

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"D'you want to teach me the vanishing spell if I go borrow one of Miranda's wands, is it complicated -?"

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"Not really but it's small-scale, I was actually going to summon an angel. I would be delighted to teach you spells, though, what've you picked up so far..."

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"She taught me the Accio one - 'summoning charm' is a confusing name - and started me on basic transfiguration."

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"Oooooh. Up to living critters yet?"

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"Not yet. I will do horrible things to demonic kittens soon."

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"Miranda can probably teach you most stuff you're capable of right now, but I'm happy to help if I ever can."

 

And he rolls out and finishes a circle for an angel.

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The angel is amenable to airifying stuff. Cam pays her.

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Yay. Then they can go inside.

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Cam seems to have recovered from his brush with harassment.

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Oh good. Kiss.

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Kisses!

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And out of the main bar for decency reasons!

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Yes. It was an excellent gift even if it had a little hiccup there in the middle. Deserves some indecency.

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Later he will ask Midnight for his list of demons who want Quenya and ask if he minds summoning one for some forensic conjurations to figure out which enterprising Hell journalists have been writing things about Cam, and what they have been writing.

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There's a couple of 'em, apparently independent.

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Anyone who seems to be, like, thoughtful and truthseeking?

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One seems to like producing sensational writing to attract readers, another has a side gig as an ecologist and is mostly mourning Valinor's lost managed ecosystem. A historian with a plodding, factual writing style. A demon whose work is read by some humans and seems to consider this a public safety emergency. A humor columnist whose article is entitled 'How to Hole A Planet' ('step one: get summoned by a species that has no idea what you are').

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None of these people seem likely to do a good job setting the record straight. Maybe he can convince sensationalist dude to write a followup entitled 'We Learned The Horrifying Truth Behind The Destruction of Valinor And It's Worse Than You Could Possibly Imagine'. Does he at least seem to care about accuracy?

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Mmmmmmmaybe? He did actually do the forensics to find Cam, he didn't make that up.

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Why not, worth a try, it's not like he has anything else to do until Theodore and Aaron are done checking how much cauldron stirring needs to be done by a wizard and how much can be done by robot.

 

He draws him a circle.

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No answer.

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Does the guy list his address tag or anything?

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Yes he does. If Timothy cares to address something to The Sensational Scandalsheet.

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Timothy has information for the Sensational Scandalsheet regarding the destruction of Valinor, and would like to share it.

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The Sensational Scandalsheet is interested, please tell its editor and principal contributor more.

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When Minor forwards this he writes that he's human and it's inconvenient to conjure his mail, any chance they can answer the summons?

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The Sensational Scandalsheet editor does not answer summonses himself but would be happy to send a junior journalist; here is her name.

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Sure. He draws a circle for that one.

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Here is a blonde demon who chooses for some reason to wear glasses. "Hello!"

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"Hi!" Even most people he knows who need vision correction don't wear glasses, they're kind of newfangled. "How much have you guys already turned up about the destruction of Valinor? Beyond what's in the articles, I mean."

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"We rush to press pretty fast, I don't think we have anything not yet broken."

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"Okay. Should I start at the beginning or with the highlights -"

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"Oh, the beginning, we can condense it from there."

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"Okay. Cam got summoned by a kid on a ship escaping Valinor. They were escaping Valinor because it was run by these powerful magical beings called the Valar, who are worshipped there as gods, and one of them had just knocked its binary star system around and made the place uninhabitable. The other ones were trying to fix it but they were also doing mind-control curses on the people trying to leave. Cam makes the refugees a bunch of food, asks who to talk to for an explanation of what is going on, gets the explanation that these refugees are going off to Endorë to fight the evil god who destroyed their home, makes them a bunch of ships, makes a planet somewhere far away and hidden from the evil god to house refugees if necessary."

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She adjusts the mic on her collar and nods.

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"Then he swings by Endorë to check out the war with the evil god. He's thinking check if the evil god is actually evil, level his evil empire if so, why not. What he finds out is that the evil god is basically just toying with the entire population. He has the power to knock stars around, he has biological weapons that can kill everything on the planet in five days flat, but he's giving his magically enslaved servants machine guns and sending them out to dig trenches. So if Cam levels the place, looks like that just means the evil god will try a little bit harder.

And it's worse than that. See, Elves don't die - that's why there're none of them in Limbo. Orcs neither. They have a chip in their heads that backs up their brains, and if they die they can be reembodied around the chip or someone with an offsite backup can reload them from the offsite backup. Cam tries making chips, of course. Doesn't work. He can reembody people if their chips are intact, though.

He has not tried taking chips back with him to Hell. The results of that experiment seem like they might be of interest to your readers, but for some reason no Elves want to try it."

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"And no one's tried it without their permission?"

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"Not that I know of. You could probably check."

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Nod.

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"Anyway. The Enemy's been doing his best to capture Elves alive or dead in a way that leaves their chips intact. And then he uploads them, and makes a couple thousand copies, and tortures them. He has a whole continent dedicated to server farms for this, and backups offsite, some of them outside the star system."

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"Why?"

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"Quite possibly just for fun. You are welcome to try to investigate it; the evil god has been crippled and deprived of all his power, so it's safe enough now."

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"How has it been verified that the servers contained what you say?"

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"Retrieved some people off them. They didn't appreciate the favor. I can get you transcripts but I dunno if anyone'll let you instantiate them for questioning."

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"I'd love transcripts."

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Sanity has a nice little heartbreaking compilation of conversations between people and their rescue forks online from people who agreed to share it. It was Eru's favorite nonfiction book of 1440. He tells her what it's called. 

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She nods. "Go on."

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"So Cam spends the next eight months making people suicide triggers. And the Enemy finds a way of killing them that doesn't give them a chance to trigger 'em, so he goes back and does easier-to-trigger suicide triggers. And he discovers two things: one is a secret weakness of the Enemy, and the other is that a way of collecting chip backups has fallen into the Enemy's hands.

The way of collecting backups were called the Silmarils. Demons can make them but the ones you make are deficient, the real things are too intelligent. The Enemy having them means he could duplicate and torture anyone with a chip, even if he hadn't captured them. And if we could get them back from him, it'd mean we could resurrect everybody without the help of the Valar.

The weakness is Valinor. The magic god thingies have to magically vest their power, and they vested it in the planet, over the course of millenia. If anything were to happen to Valinor, the mind-control curse they'd laid would fail, the magic they were using to prevent summoning anywhere in the universe would fail, and the Enemy would lose all his power over his servants and his ability to do the torture-uploads. I can't prove this part except by demonstrating that it happened; summoning started working the instant the planet was destroyed, the mindcontrol curse which you can detect from chip scans vanished, and the torture all stopped and the war instantly ended and the Enemy's servants, freed, all agreed to peace terms. 

Do you see where I'm going with this? Cam destroyed Valinor, and then he stole the backups and put it back with everyone back alive on it. He's about halfway done, you can verify that too."

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"How do we conduct chip scans to check for mind control?"

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"The mind control affected three hundred thousand people who were on Valinor's moon Araman at the time. You can conjure for their chips just before and just after the mindcontrol curse was laid, and then run a machine learning algorithm on your data. Same for the same people just before and just after the destruction of Valinor."

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"Right, but what's the equipment we'd need to read them?"

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"I will have the people who did it send you their data, we've been using the Silmarils to read from and I don't think dummy ones do for that."

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Nod.

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"Cam also had a conversation with the Valar about the mind control curse, he was worried it'd follow him to Hell -" instructions to get the transcript.

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Nod nod.

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"Questions?"

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She has lots!

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He answers them. When she is done - "so I have a lot of information this interesting, and was having a hard time finding people in Hell to tell them. I am really eager to see if this works out or if it gets too distorted to be useful."

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"The writeup should be in the next edition!"

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"All right! Have a nice day."

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"You too, thanks for the tip!"

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"Like I said, more where it came from." And home.

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Vanishment.

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And off to send her the machine-learning data without anything reconstructible to a read-write machine.

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"Couldn't this backfire if she happens to dig up the true story?"

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"She has me on video not technically telling any lies. She could conjure the oath but without context I'm not sure that adds much of anything to the story; she can't distinguish between 'Cam has a demonic Silmaril and is doing backups wholesale' and 'Cam has a real Silmaril and is doing backups from it' and backups she tries won't work, she could conjure for everything Cam made since he landed and get some dangerous stuff that way but if learning that Valinor got put back was going to inspire someone to do it it was going to happen. I sort of expect we are going to eventually need a couple daeva checking for people made in Hell and then - I mean, if we really need to we can in fact Imperius them into taking a summons."

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"By we do you mean me."

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"Yep!"

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"I don't want to play demon-Auror with this much to learn."

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"Well, if it becomes a problem we will stop time in Hell again until you've learned all the things and are ready to do some demon-Auroring."

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"Okay. Shoo, I'm trying to learn all the things."

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He shoos. He adjusts potion-robots.

 What's the article like, when it comes out?

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Lurid. Abbreviated, though with the transcripts of rescue fork interactions offered as a side publication in full. Does technically mention that Cam put back about half the population of Valinor; does not extend him the courtesy of "so far".

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Ah, people. Well, non-Elf people. Elves probably don't even have tabloids. "Do Elves have tabloids?"

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"Hmm? Yes, of course. They cover what I wear to tax negotiations, that kind of thing."

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"And never accuse you of secretly being a lizard?"

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"There was someone who was insistent that Huan liked shapeshifting to impersonate the royal family, and hosted debates over which things we said were us as opposed to said by Huan impersonating us. Eventually I think Huan snuck into his house somehow and ate all his rugs and he moved to Alqualondë."

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Hee hee.

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"Why do you ask?"

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"I have been against my better judgment reading Hell tabloids."

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"Uh, why?"

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"I want to have a better sense of information dissemination in Hell, how and in what ways new stuff will be disruptive, whether there are responsible people with any steering power on the public zeitgeist-"

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"You wanted to know where that one guy conjures his news from."

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"Yes."

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"There's an old Earth saying, 'the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it'. Hell even more so."

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"I assure you I wasn't going to try to shut anyone up, that really doesn't work even before the, uh, net."

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"What are you trying?"

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"Giving them more material. The Enemy is a very sensational topic."

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"...what if they turn up how to fork people? That would be very bad unless we can get fork protection for the world."

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"Yes, it would. Unlikely, not made significantly more likely off the information that the world had an evil god who was torturing everybody, if it did depend on that remaining a secret it was going to happen anyway, ditto for the secret Valinor now exists again, and while it'd be an annoying waste of time Minor and I can do airtight law enforcement."

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"More attention means more likely, but maybe not overwhelmingly so. Can you, though?"

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"I'd also rather it be old news before we increase the population of demons a hundredfold. Anyway, I bet you can confund someone into taking a summons and I'm certain you could Imperius them. We stop time in Hell, and if they won't answer a circle we summon all their nearest neighbors, get a door to right where they're at, fetch their victims and give them a binding."

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"...Fair enough."

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"We don't have another mortality solution, when we find people who hatch from eggs or something are we going to refrain from teaching them summoning?"

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"We might leave them until we've been through more worlds in case we find another mortality solution."

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"I guess that's fair, with more worlds than we can get to anyway..."

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Nod. Sigh.

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'Headed off terraforming?"

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"I think I have less than five days of prep left."

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"How long'll it take you once you're there?"

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"Week or two, not making the rock means I'm making less but I have to look where I'm putting it."

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"Have fun!"

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Cam kisses him goodbye.

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"So one option," he says to Ambela later, "is to have the portal open directly on the human planet, which has the advantage that moving stuff will be much much easier and the disadvantage that humans from one world can go through the portals and bother humans on another world - humans like going to war -"

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"They like it?"

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"I don't think I'm being uncharitable. Going to war reflects the greatness of their people compared to the other people they're warring with, going to war avenges the great evils their people did our people, going to war means we get their stuff, going to war means our gods will rewards us..."

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"Mm-hm. Too hard to have border control at the portal?"

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"Depends how clever people are. If the Valar can do a really restricted access list, and no one's got magic that can be used to teleport through the portals or anything, then we could just individually clear humans for portal travel - doesn't scale great, but prevents wars. And we could have some sort of peacekeeping force there on the lookout for actual armies, but I don't know what they'd do about 'someone summons a daeva and directs it to go wreak havoc in some world they're mad at' - of course, maybe wars between worlds aren't fundamentally any different than wars within worlds, which we're not planning to prevent by restricting travel..."

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"More likely to have disparate capabilities, maybe."

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"Daeva really really change the playing field there, obviate most weapons humans used to use..."

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"Yes. If power is ever disparate enough, though, distance just gives a logistics advantage to whoever has - teleportation or whatever -"

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"What distance gives us is reaction time. Though not if someone has interstellar teleportation, I guess."

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"It wouldn't surprise me at this point."

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"It wouldn't astonish me either but it's surely not common."

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"Doesn't have to be, if it's transferable or cheap or combines with something else."

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"So then we need to plan for all worlds having access to daeva and instantaneous interstellar teleportation. That's going to be challenging."

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"A bit, yes. I suppose we could just be very conservative about who has the opportunity."

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"Keep the portals closed almost all the time. Yeah, probably safest. I don't like it but probably safest. WIth portals closed and no circle syncing worlds'll get wildly apart, time-wise..."

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"Maybe portals very small and far away from everything? Lightleap a ludicrous distance, place a pinhole in intergalactic vacuum."

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"We should check if demons can conjure for that."

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"Probably not but it's cheap to test."

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He makes a note. "I want humans who have bad governments to be able to leave, though, and portals would be nice to accomplish that...maybe we can just set it up so anyone can go settle their own planet..."

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"I think humans may be more - dependent - I could go live in the woods if I wanted, humans are maybe more stuck -"

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"Would they be even if the plants were edible and the climate was temperate? And they could summon?"

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"...maybe ask one of the humans."

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So when he next sees Miranda he asks her.

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"...we might not, like, die, but I think you're probably underestimating what humans will put up with politically to have the comforts of civilization. Demons would be good for comforts of civilization but people fleeing to a new planet won't have anything to trade them, right?"

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"I mean, 'better than living in temperate woods where you can eat everything' puts a bound on how bad things can be politically, right? And Midnight's been befriending demons who just want to be summoned for the languages."

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"Humans are also really bad at risk assessment," says Miranda. "So a small risk of something really bad might not seem worse than living in the woods and getting rained on and having spiders on you frequently."

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"We can do no rain and no spiders, if those are the sticking points."

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"Those were just examples but if you can actually make it work with no rain that would be a selling point."

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"We can do no rain - we can probably set up indoor plumbing, too, with enough thought..."

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"At some point you're just offering replacement civilization which is fine but might require more thought than edible rainless woods anarchy."

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"I'm trying to avoid requiring ongoing intervention from us but am open to most setups that don't require that."

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"Well, who counts as 'us'."

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"Anyone."

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"They might just spontaneously organize into new governments."

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"That's fine, that's scalable, our personal attention isn't."

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"At any remove?"

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"I mean, 'develop a initial configuration for a refugee planet such that we can install one for humans as we go and expect that it will give them more options' is fine, 'personally run such planets' is not."

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"I'm just worried that with nobody minding the place they'll inevitably turn into the sort of planet people need to escape. Again."

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"We don't have anyone to mind the place. We need solutions that don't require that."

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"Then I'm not sure the solution can be having edible woods anarchies for people to run off to."

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"So what should it be?"

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"Maybe there's a way to run them by computer? Sort of like Cam's moon prison."

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"If humans can move between lots of different places and set up societies in all of them, none of them will end up governed better than if we just have a computer blindly do it?"

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"Some of them might but it would probably take a while. The ways humans can wind up in charge of stuff is not well correlated with the ways they can be good at it unless they are, like, Timothy. The computer wouldn't be to actually govern so much as to make sure people didn't get bothered by anyone they didn't want to meet though."

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"We can't do that with computers. I can ask Cam when he gets back if Revelation can - wouldn't it sort of involve everyone being in prison all of the time -"

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"I know Elves are sensitive about that but automatic doors making sure certain pairs of people are never in the same room can't qualify, can it?"

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"The entire world consisting of automatic doors that will sometimes close such that you can't go into a space that certain other people are in? Yeah, that'd qualify."

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"I mean, it's a whole planet. There could be huge amounts of space per space."

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"Which would help, but arbitrarily losing access to places you'd planned to go and all of the people who are on the other side of them is more than bad enough to make it a real problem even if it's a big prison. Plus I'm not sure it'd hold up against daeva, and the first thing I'd do if there were a giant wall between me and half my people for some reason is ask a fairy to make that cease to be the case."

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"Yeah, daeva break it. Daeva could make any enforcement of anything very hard."

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"And these populations'll be larger and larger percent daeva if we tell them that that's where their dead are going."

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"If they're all daeva that limits how much damage they can do to each other but if it's only some..."

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"I guess I could just fork an octillion times and set up good governments everywhere."

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"...you could..."

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"It's not very appealing but leaving worlds to flounder after having raised the stakes for them is also not very appealing."

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"Maybe we'll think of something else."

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"Or someone'll walk in with absurdly powerful magic." He glances hopefully at the door. No one walks in with absurdly powerful magic.

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"Maybe they can save it for after my birthday, I think I'm subjectively fourteen sometime this week."

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"Ooooh. Is a party planned?"

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"If you wanna call it that?"

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"I have no idea how humans celebrate birthdays, really."

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"I was going to get Cam to set up something nice whenever he gets here and invite people but it seems generous to say it's a plan."

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"I am sure it'll be lovely."

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"Thanks."

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And back to work.

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Cam is synced only to part of the bar. People not loitering near the circle need not experience the full wait.

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That's good; they'd miss him.

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"Hey. How've you been?" Kiss.

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"Good! We've been bashing our head against the question of how to help preindustrial human societies, yet again. Oh, the Elves came up with - I don't know if it'll be useful but it's stunningly pretty -" he pulls him outside -

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"...that is sure an Elfy summoning circle. I can't read it."

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It is the prettiest summoning circle ever, up on a shining pedestal with a waterfall flowing all around it and done in tengwar so stylized they are unrecognizable. "Yeah, it's too tiny for human eyes. Reusable, you complete it by redirecting the water, see?"

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"Yeah, there's some like that in Revelation too but it's more popular to use light projections."

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"It solves the illiterate summoners problem, no one has a hope of reproducing it. Doesn't solve the payment problem. Honestly it seems like the only reason the world isn't ruled by daeva is that none of them are that ambitious."

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"If someone tried to reproduce this they could wind up with a bad but valid circle."

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"I don't think so. The 'I summon an angel' bit is just that little frilly ridge there. I don't have a good feel for how many people would try, having been instructed not to..."

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"People try to DIY all kinds of stuff."

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"I am looking forward to the rollout to temple-guild world, I think it might give us a better sense of what to expect."

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"I wonder if they keep their magic. It's not genetic so they can't do my wizard trick."

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"If they do, does that have any worrying implications?"

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"Yeah. Gold and white ones stop having usage limitations if they're indestructible. Gold ones could fork."

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"Does their method of time travel - erase entire universes -"

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"Unclear."

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"I kind of want to just abolish the magic fountains but I take it everyone would hate this and we probably shouldn't just ignore them on that."

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"They seem like - traps that have self-sustaining subcultures built around them."

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"Exactly. And given the age you have to get dunked at, we can't even keep them around on a voluntary basis.... could sabotage them quietly, I guess, if we wanted to..."

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"None of the magic seems indispensable?"

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"I'm not sure any of them net improve peoples' lives!"

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"Sure, but would it if we had a way to cheat it."

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"Daeva whitemages, sure, if we found something with mental invulnerability then maybe they could bluemage, but you don't even get to choose which one someone you dunk becomes..."

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Nod.

"...If we can't have daeva mages that has implications for the current crop."

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"They might become daeva but not stay mages, like wizards."

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"Yes. We won't know till some who have summoned die."

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"Which can be pretty soon, now that there's a portal planet I think my alt was planning to arrange for a portal and then go say hello."

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"My point is we don't want to let any mages summon if we can't have them be mage daeva. The one who summoned Minor seems great but there's just one of him."

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"'can't have' is a bit strong but - would be complicated to handle and there are already a lot of things that are going to be complicated to handle...otherwise they die, though..."

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"Yeah."

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"We can talk it over with Bright before he leaves."

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Nod.

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"Stork's a better place to roll out summoning because they've got stuff to trade and are mostly literate, but I'd want to consult a local and Kib is - not likely to be okay with that -"

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"With being consulted or with bringing in someone else?"

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"With being consulted, mostly, I think. With signs about where the plot is going, generally..."

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Nod.

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"We could probably do stuff in Stork without local guidance. But it's not urgent."

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"We could get someone else from there."

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"Yeah. Think we should?"

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"As opposed to flying blind, definitely."

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"No, I mean as opposed to leaving it be."

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"I would actually like to add servants to the repertoire and Kib's not gonna help."

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"Okay. Portal planet can open to Stork, too, and we can conduct interviews and find helpful locals."

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"And pay demons in obedient cats!"

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"I wonder if you have to be, uh, not born there, but sort of born there to get it working or if it's a species thing."

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"Good question. Are the Elves there likely to be having kids, with the war going on only in the other world?"

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"Elf rules about children-having are mysterious to me."

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"Me too."

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"I guess you could just check?"

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"Only if they would have had them already, which might say more about how long it's taking them to rearchitect the city or something."

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"It's been, what, forty years? Since the first portal..."

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"About enough time for an Elf to start seriously thinking about starting a family, maybe, once they've done the other twelve multiyear projects on their list."

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"I think we should take point on multiverse things lest they take several centuries to get around to them."

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"Agreed."

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So he heads in and asks Bright when he's planning to go visit the world with the temple-guilds. 

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"Once I'm familiar with the cultural role of the temple-guild things, and have thought about magic interactions and so on, and have things prepared for a trade negotiation - I was going to go visit Kib, want to come along and I'll fill you in?"

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"Sure!"

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Upstairs they go.

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Kib is there reading a book. "Hi."

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"Hi! Bad time?"

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"Pretty much equivalent to most times."

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"Oh, good, I was going to talk to Timothy about my plans to make contact with the temple-guilds world - it needs a name -"

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"Godspring?"

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"There you go. So, first question, do we want to dunk any of our under-fives, I think solidly nope."

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"I was discussing this with Cam. Goldmages would maybe be okay as Elves and whitemage daeva would actually be super convenient but you don't get to choose. Also unclear if the goldmage timetravel is wildly unethical -"

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"Your world's got shoddy divination but something somewhere might have better, if we get that then -"

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"...then maybe dunk Elf to-be-goldmages who we have alts of and know grow up into nice people?"

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...Kib seems to be listening but doesn't comment.

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"If Elf mages don't reembody as mages then we can always dunk them, kill them and reembody if we got a bad roll."

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"Congratulations that was very Slytherin."

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"Thank you. I've been working pretty hard on it. Anyway, if Elf mages do reembody as mages then that suggests Mandos could maybe just embody people as mages no dunking required and in that case we can get a couple hundred trustworthy goldmages -"

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"Ooooh. If Mandos can embody people as mages then it might be worth having some bluemages parttime - revert the changes somehow - you can do that with chips, right?"

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"Not quite, not yet, but Findekáno's working on it. Anyway, can't find out if mages daevafy until one of them dies and that requires getting lots of them to summon and if it turns out they do and there are problems -"

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"There'll be problems, by the time they die they're mostly too disabled to look after themselves."

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"Could have the Valar special-case them - they can't do it everywhere it takes too long but they could extend their lives indefinitely -"

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"While they are too disabled to take care of themselves forever, yay. Also I think the whole economic structure is built around the assumption there're more working-age mages than retired ones to support, if you make it top-heavy it topples - or starts taking in way way more babies to compensate - or tries euthanasia -"

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"People built whole systems around the assumption people'll die so you don't have to support them indefinitely -"

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"I mean, obviously, because it is a valid assumption and given that people tend to plan things at all."

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Snort.

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"We do not want to incentivize them to cripple more four-year-olds."

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"Agreed. So, uh, possibly no summoning or life extension for any mages except whitemages. Except if you teach summoning everybody's going to try it because of course they are -"

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"Yeah, that's where I get stuck. 'roll out summoning to part but not all of this population' seems like a very definitely losing proposition. We could claim summoning doesn't work in their world and ship people through the portal to ours to do it, but mages can conceal it and people might try at home what they did in our world and then it'll work and word'll get around -"

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"Could do it with a lot of very cooperative demons but I don't have a lot of very cooperative demons."

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"How?"

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"Only teach them to summon specific demons, have those demons check who just made a circle for them before they take it and decline to show up if it's someone for whom we are pretending summoning doesn't work."

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"My impression of daeva is that they are mostly kinda irresponsible."

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Nod. "Or at least very accustomed to low stakes, and not in the same way you're accustomed to it."

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"...am I supposed to have some kind of input or just receive exposition?"

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"Do you have thoughts?"

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"I think you're waiting for me to finish accumulating Aly dreams so you can roll me all the way back and torture Aly instead for a change."

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"In that case if I want Bell input on this I'll go to Cam. So no mass deceit plots. Except not mentioning summoning at all, I guess. They have good healing so you could plausibly get most of the benefits of daeva just from having a few cooperative demons along to do infrastructure, maybe we just do that."

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"It means they all die, but maybe the Valar'll help there. Okay, so the kingdom our hosts are from is here -" map - "and I'm trying to think what to trade them that they can sustain on their own tech base, and I'm thinking -"

 

And they talk about trade details for an hour.

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It's sort of soothing.

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Yay. 

 

Later he does take the in-progress plans to Cam for Bell input. "Scour the place for a mage who is trustworthy, in command of their faculties, and dying, teach them to summon, learn whether mages daevafy and whether they keep their powers. And then we have three plans from there, one for each outcome, sending them over now..."

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"I'm sort of worried that if they wanted to a greenmage could subvert, uh, literally anyone."

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"It works that fast?"

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"It takes, like, seconds to minutes."

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"Can you conjure by 'greenmages in this area' -"

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"Nope. I could find their uniforms but they don't wear them all the time."

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"Can have someone who doesn't mind alt mindreading go, and a soul Elf alt of theirs hang out in a shuttle in range... I wonder if Occlumency blocks it..."

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"Worth knowing. Could hire a greenmage to try."

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He adds a note to do that. Bright says he's fine with Midnight reading his mind during trade negotiations. A few days are spent scouring Bar for the best-for-humans genetically modified crops anywhere.

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...Ambela has a leading conversation with Miranda.

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Miranda goes and asks why it's okay if his alts read his mind.

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" - hmm? Oh, we're doing it because Cam's worried greenmages can tamper with people and I don't want to be tampered with."

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"I know why it's useful, just not why it's okay."

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"I guess we have less of a thing about mental privacy than you? The reason I wouldn't want people reading my mind is because then I would be in the habit of not having thoughts that I didn't want them to hear and that'd make me a terrible thinker, and I couldn't keep anyone's confidences and I couldn't be calculating..."

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"But nobody's confidences exclude Midnight?"

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"I'm a fork from 1370. Anything I know is something that was for instances of me in general."

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"Okay."

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So Ambela doesn't get in the way.