"You didn't want the kabob stick back, after -"

"- what would I do with it?"

"Exactly."

She looks so confused.

"...so it didn't matter, that I'd touched it, since you were done with it."

"- it wouldn't have mattered anyway."

"I don't know how to explain."

"But it means no learning to sail."

"Yeah. I don't know how to swim, anyway."

"Do you want to learn?"

"I... I don't know because to learn I'd have to touch somebody's water."

"And you don't want to do that because you're scared something bad will happen."

"Yes."

Sigh. "Okay. If Ulmo says nothing bad will happen will you still think so?"

"I don't know what Ulmo knows."

"Is there something that Ulmo should know?"

"I - I -" He's shaking again.

"- look, when the Valar won their war with Melkor do you know what they did?"

"No."

"They put him in prison for a while and then paroled him eventually once he said he wouldn't do it again. And Melkor ran giant torture-factories and bred people into orcs. Is the - thing- worse than running giant torture-factories?"

"- no, I guess not -"

"So then what's the worst thing that could possibly happen?"

"I don't know."

"Okay. Did your friends like the stuff, do they want more?"

"They liked it. They're worried about it being noticed though, more would be more noticeable."