Feb 22, 2018 11:44 AM
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Most of our communication devices that would work readily deep underground would require laying wire between locations, which I expect would not be feasible during your move. Most radio signal has a dramatically reduced range underground; if you expect to be able to lay signal boosters at regular intervals it might work regardless, but would require significantly more manufacturing than two end-points. They are also vulnerable to interception. (Specifications for the simplest radio and signal booster I could find are attached, along with notes on the approximate range underground, and power needs; if that is simple with your manufacturing base there are more complex ones with longer ranges.)

Another possibility, courtesy of a conversation with a friend of mine, is you could ask the administrator if they can connect your friend, and talk to them in private messages here.

For your power problem, there are some optimizations that can be made to solar panels to use primarily red-spectrum light more optimally; I annotated the second set of diagrams appropriately (if you are using a different kind of solar panel I can try to determine how to adapt them if you send me diagrams of what you are using). Although I am inclined to ask why you are using solar power underground? Almost anything else would be more effective.

@Giant, you would likely find this interesting.


I kinda wish you hadn't mentioned the whole PM the admin angle. Now I'm going to have to do that.


Chayis: and you have no idea why you have to move? are you sure it's a good reason? can they actually MAKE you? what happens if you just stay?


They have finally explained what was going on. There was something one group wanted to try that another group thought was a bad idea to do around people, and they each thought the other had bad reasons, and for a while, they weren't sure which of the groups was going to leave. The group that wants to try the thing is going to go somewhere else to try it. I think there was something more complicated interpersonal and political also happening, but I don't know what. Some people moved to other communities to be further away from the argument. Most of my favorite adults, and my friends among the kids who didn't move, aren't moving.

We might eventually decide to move anyway, but it would be after deciding what we were doing, and where we were going, so we would have time to prepare. They said that our friend could come with us if we ever do move, as long as she confirms that she actually wants to while Chayis isn't in the room, which she would.

I am very annoyed that they did not give us more information to make decisions, and will not be talking to some of them for probably a few months [about 36 to 109 Earth days], but I am much less upset than I would be if we actually had to move.

The projects we started do seem worth pursuing, although less urgently. I greatly appreciate the assistance and sympathy.



Thank you very much! Someone might be able to lay wire through the tunnels, but if the finished device required the wire to stay intact, I suspect it would become damaged relatively soon. It might be easier to protect discrete signal boosters, depending on how many are required. I don't think I can make or get components as small as in your specifications, and am not sure what "aluminum" is, or "plastic". Also, I can't figure out by looking at the instructions why it would do anything?

That is a good idea. If we do get separated later, we will ask her to try to connect to the forum. I've sent her a copy of the instructions for this device we accidentally created to look at tomorrow, just in case.

I do not understand the diagrams for the panels. Do they store light? We don't have panels like that, we just have runes. The problem is that red light does different things in the runes than cyan or yellow does. (...If it matters, the light's more pink than actually red.) We use sunlight for our devices because we're near the surface, and we make parts of the cave transparent so that light comes through, and we charge and transport pastes? It makes sense for us, but people deeper down use pink light for their devices, and just import food, because it would be expensive and inefficient to import sunlight for their devices. What would we be using instead of solar power?



We don't really understand why we would have had to move. I suspect we wouldn't have had to had to, but they would probably would have said that it wasn't safe, and if the other group weren't leaving, most of our favorite people would have left. The people left might not have been able or willing to help us find and join them later. I think we would have decided not to risk it, and to just move with them.


It has been brought to my attention that despite the large number of comments on genetics and genomes the concept hasn't really been explained. I linked to some textbooks in the resource sharing thread but I'm not sure all users are able to follow such links. All biological life on my world is composed of microscopic units called cells and various structures that keep this large number of cells connected together and functioning as one creature. Most lifeforms begin their existence as a single cell, in the case of humans this is the zygote I mentioned over in the kinds of people thread. This one cell splits in half through a complicated process called mitosis and eventually through successive splits turns into the collection of over thirty trillion cells that makes up a grown biological human body.

Now this gives rise to an obvious question: how does this one undifferentiated cell have enough information to differentiate it into enough cells to make up an entire person? The answer lies in a complex molecule called deoxyribonucleic acid, or DNA for short. DNA tends to be abstracted as an alphabet because there are four different substructures that can be substituted into a part of the repeating pattern of DNA: Adenine, Thymine, Guanine, and Cytosine. Genomics, or genetics, is the study of how changes to the sequence of DNA bases inside of a particular lifeform's DNA give rise to changes in how that lifeform looks, acts, grows, and generally exists.


@Fayet: It is good that you will not need to move, even if a solution to the problems stemming from that could have been found.

...The panels use light to create electricity, which powers most of our devices. It can also be generated using a number of fuels, anything that can turn a wheel (wind, running water, people on small scales), and a few more exotic sources.

What are these runes (I am not sure if that is translating correctly?) and pastes? And how are you safely installing translucent walls and or roofs without plastic?



I do not think that we have a way to measure anything as small as you are describing. How would you figure out whether something is made of such cells, and whether they have the same composition?



"Electricity" isn't translating, what do you mean by it? All of our devices are powered by systems that cause them to be pushed in certain ways, or by light. I am not sure how you would create energy to fuel something by pushing a wheel, unless it was to wind clockwork or something?

Runes are patterns of lines that have effects on the things they are written on when they are illuminated. Pastes are very thick fluids full of small living things that absorb light and maintain it for a long time. When they're dried out, they still hold the light, but are much easier to transport in jars. We make the transparent walls and roofs with strengthened glass, and by making regions of the stone itself transparent with transparency runes.

(Fayet can probably describe it in more depth, if you need further explanation. Devices and runes are more within her area of interest than mine.)


Chayis, you mentioned that you have glass. Does your world also have lenses? These would be glass circles that are thicker in the middle than they are on the edges, and sort of curve. You might use them to make things look bigger, or to focus sunlight and start fires with it.


We have lenses. They are made by cutting glass spheres in half, then grinding them until their edges are smooth, or changing which way the flat side curves. They make things appear enough bigger and clearer that some people look through them to create fine inscriptions or small lines in artwork, and some people with recurring vision problems wear smaller lenses to see better. I have not read about anyone starting fires with sunlight and lenses, but it might be possible. How does a lens need to curve to allow something very small to be seen?


There's a really complex explanation that involves lots of terms you probably wouldn't recognize. The simple explanation is that light bends when it moves from one substance to another, in this case glass to air and air to glass. Lenses are curved because they allow you to change the arrangement of light coming out as opposed to the arrangement of light coming in.

The practical effect of this is that the ratio of the sin of the angle the light is moving relative to the surface it's moving through before the transition to the sin of the angle it moves through a material is always the same for the same two materials.

If you're not familiar with trigonometric functions like sin, you can calculate the sin of an angle by drawing a right triangle with the angle as one of the non-right angles. Then the sin of the angle is equal to the the length of the side opposite your angle divided by the length of the side opposite the right angle.

Curved lenses work by using this property to bring light closer together or further apart on one side of the lense than the other. Lenses with the sides curving inwards on both sides will make light spread out lenses with both sides curving outwards will make light bunch together. This is why you can sometimes start fires using outwards curving lenses, they concentrate the light and therefore the energy it carries.


Oh, that's interesting, thank you! I'll see if I can get someone who has more experience with glass to help me make lenses to see very small things, and if they can't, try it myself. I'll show the diagram and equation to my friend with the interest in math and shapes, and see if he can figure out how thick to make them and how far apart they should be!


Asking for help with making a friend.

She's really cool, fish knight lady, brave and determined and strong and honorable. She cares so much about everyone here and she wants to free everyone and protect them but she thinks I lie about wanting to help and am actually planning to kill someone.

I can't get past her to the next place I need to go. When I challenge her she says she respects it, but just gets faster. When I say I don't want to fight she says have to, and when I challenge she just gets faster. I'm not giving up but I don't know what to do.


So, I have a sister who's studying Friendship, and my mom's really good at manipulating people, and I've consulted them about your situation.

Why does this fish think you're lying and planning to kill people? That's potentially pretty important for persuading her you aren't, which it sounds like could be the way to go (if she's honourable, she won't "let you kill people" even if she likes you). If her reasons seem unreasonable, might she have other things against you or against people in general that she doesn't want to acknowledge? Have you tried meeting her in other contexts where she her mind won't be on killing you and befriending her there?

My sister also warns that sometimes making friends with someone isn't possible, although you might not have reached that point yet; it's possible you need to look into alternative ways to get past her or to get what you need to get past her for. Might the fish knight agree to watch over you to make sure you don't kill anyone while you go where you need to? Personally, I'd probably try getting past her in disguise, but then I'm better at disguise than most ponies. Or restrain her with magic, but that might not be something you can do. Another option would be to try to intimidate her.


She thinks I'm planning to kill people because I'm a human and there was a war between humans and monsters, and I think some of the humans who fell before maybe did that? I don't know. She thinks it's not good enough I make friends with monsters if I let them stay trapped.

I think I found her house and I made friends with I think her neighbor. But she waits for me on a little cliff over where I need to go next. In front of a kid I made friends with though she took the kid home and went to fight me later? But I think wouldn't let me through even if could find them and got them to come with me.

I'll ask her about watching me next time I try. I changed clothes but she still knew it was me. I will see if I can make a better disguise. I can't restrain with magic. She can though, she turns my SOUL green and I can't move around. She's really brave. Maybe if nothing else I try works I fight her like she thinks I am too scared to. And I can be really careful not to hurt her or to just a little and then stop and get her to stop?


Ugh. So she's bigoted. Don't know how to deal with that. Befriending her could help make her less paranoid, but of course her paranoia makes it harder to befriend her. Do you know any things you could help her with unrelated to the whole humans vs. monsters thing, or interests she has besides that you could ask her about or (pretend to) enjoy with her? Are you actually complicit in the mosters being trapped at all, from what you wrote in the Miscellaneous world facts thread it sounded like you were doing everything you could to break it short of suicide?

Does she really wait at the cliff all the time? I'd think someone who wanted to guard a cliff permanently would need to swap with someone else sometimes to rest? Do monsters not need rest?

Maybe monsters are different, but here we normally tell each other apart as much by smell and color than by anything clothes would cover (unless humans cover themselves completely with clothes?). And it sounds like she'd probably have a similar attitude to a different human, anyway. Would it be feasible for you to disguise yourself as a monster?

Do you have a way to get more magic powers than you have currently?


Oh. I didn't think of it like that but kind of. I think she likes the other people in the guard. She really likes one of my friends, who really likes her. But he is very friendly and she thinks he would even be friends with someone killing him. So he is not proof. By her neighbor might she likes wrestling and cooking and movies and piano. The only places and times I can find her is when she is there to try and fight me. I don't know how to get her to do something else from there. She thinks I should die and not is trapping everyone.

She is only at the cliff when I go there. Monsters need rest, but she's always there when I go and not anywhere else I can find when I don't. I haven't tried staying more than a few days before I go because I run out of money if I stay at the inn too long and it's too cold or wet depends where to sleep outside.

I made friends with some dog people by rolling in snow to smell like a puppy! But they were blind. She doesn't have a nose I can see.
Just went tried a bunch of disguise things to check. Made almost facepaint to pretend to be extra skeleton but it turns out that skeletons are rare so she knew it was me. Went back and tried again few times garbage from the dump costume, but either wasn't good enough or she guessed that costume or recognized what monster I pretended to be but that I wasn't any she knew. Calls me a coward and gross liar and says to come back when I'm ready to really fight. And I checked she recognizes through better costumes I can make even if I haven't tried one worse first. Think my sweater helps because monster kids wear stripes. But I'm bad at disguises and she knows so many monsters. (It's really cool how many different people she knows. Everyone here likes her because she's helped them lots.)

Not sure about new magic. Figured out how to heal myself if I can find somewhere to concentrate right. I don't know how but I can try things again if I need to. I don't know how monsters throw their magic around or turn SOULs colors. The only human magic I heard of before I fell needs groups.


Tried and again again again. Fail. Fail and die or fail and run away coward too slow get caught die. Again again. SOUL break before absorb, no good.

Tried fight offer mercy, says no until can't. Tried other weapons no change.

The heroine is dead. Dust, can't go back.



Oh no :-(


Sorry we couldn't find a solution for you.



Oh and after what I did to the last person who hugged me. Hahahaha.

But it's not funny at all. Sorry. Thank you for lots of trying. You helped.



Found a new monster, helps me, thinks friend fish is ok. I couldn't tell. She's nice. Maybe the rest to Barrier without problem.

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