"No argument here."

"So far I've been going consequentialist--totting up the damage done by the Doom and by the crime the Doom was punishment for and pointing out how much more of a negative effect the Doom has than the thing it's supposed to be punishing."

"Think to the people who weren't Feanorians and were involved in the Kinslaying saying they didn't deserve the punishment feels like trying to minimize the wrong they did, and they don't want to do that."

"Yes, because stewing in guilt is so productive. And of course only people who participated are going to suffer as a result of the Doom."

"Public guilt reassures people you won't do it again."

"Personally I would rather risk a repeat of Alqualonde than have the people between me and Morgoth be doomed to failure."

"People don't see it that way. Killing Elves in self-defense seems a greater horror than the Enemy."

"Elves."

"Yup. 'Kinslaying' is a fascinatingly loaded word."

"Can you unpack it for me?"

"I mean, whatever happened in Nargothrond to the petty Dwarves wasn't a Kinslaying. If some Elves shot a whole tribe of Men like the Laiquendi occasionally threaten to, that wouldn't be a Kinslaying. It's Elves killing Elves."

"I was assuming it was just self-interest and maybe a defense mechanism that had the Feanorians less upset about Alqualonde but they also were less--patronizing about my sister's and my humanity than Fingon was or I've been led to believe most Elves would be."

"Think it's probably self-interest and a defense mechanism, plus the political sense to notice that patronizing you is unwise. And inexperience with humans so less occasion to have adopted habits of conduct towards them."

"I guess. It would be nice if someone didn't think killing elves was worse than killing people with a less convenient resurrection mechanism."

"Other way around, we die anyway. At least that's how everyone saw it until recently."

"I can sort of see the logic since there's a Doom on and before me the dead were less than retrievable but now the logic does not work anymore because a new premise has been added."

"And they did promptly offer your sister a kingdom. That's something."

"It is, it's true."

"I'm honestly pretty impressed, I wouldn't have expected them to do it."

"I liked Fingon--Prince Fingon--when I met him. ...Not that that's saying much under the circumstances but I got the impression he has a good head on his shoulders."

"I am very glad to hear it."

"He's also close friends with one of the Feanorians. Maedhros, I'm pretty sure, which honestly speaks well of both of them in my opinion."

"Prince Fingon's the one who rescued the lord Maedhros from Angband. When they hadn't reconcilated, after the Feanorians betrayed everyone."

"And had to take his hand off to do it."

"That would take - I'm not sure what the word for it is - they call him the valiant, you know, Fingon the Valiant, and maybe that's what it is."